heavy clutch

[Guest]

Posted this on the wrong clutch forum, put it on the 2 cylinder one cos I'm a numpty!

Morning all. Had a quick look through previous posts but can't find what I'm looking for. I have a '78 GS750E with a very stiff / heavy clutch. I have replaced the springs with standard Suzuki springs (not heavy duty ones) and converted it to a hydraulic clutch.

The clutch lever is still very stiff and can be a pain to keep the clutch in whilst in a traffic queue. From memory it has always been on the heavy side but now I'm getting fed up with it.

When I rebuilt the bike, I checked the plates and thicknesses and they were / are all within tolerances.

The lever is and has been lubed so it's not sticking or binding, obviously no cables to foul.

Any help or advise would be appreciated.​

 

[Baatfam]

Posted this on the wrong clutch forum, put it on the 2 cylinder one cos I'm a numpty!

Any help or advise would be appreciated.​

My advice is to go back and delete the other thread...

 

[Guest]

If I knew how to I might just do that.

 

[Baatfam]

If I knew how to I might just do that.

If you hit the "Edit Post" button, bottom right of your post, you will find the delete option.
If you delete your first post of the tread, the whole thread is deleted.

 

[Guest]

Ha !! done it.

 

[Steve]

We might need some more details on that hydraulic clutch conversion, but in general, if the master and slave cylinders are properly sized, there should only be a modest effort necessary at the lever.

.

 

[Guest]

The master cylinder is a Suzuki GSX something (I think) the slave cylinder, can't remember much other than it's an aftermarket special from ebay. I have a friend with a fairly well tuned Triumph speed triple who has the same slave cylinder and he doesn't have any issues.

The clutch has always been heavy, even before I worked on it. I seem to remember stretching a new clutch cable riding through traffic in Birmingham early 2000 to the point Ineeded to replace it when i got back to Plymouth. This was well before the hydraulic conversion.

 

[rphillips]

Can't help with "Fix'in" the problem. My wife couldn't operate the clutch, on her Kawa. ZL 600. I took 2 of the 6 clutch springs out & she could operate it with no problem. Just checking it out, I rode it pretty hard, a few times, trying to feel some slipping but never felt anything, even at 100 mph. in 6th gear, no slip. Like said, it won't fix the problem, just make it easier to live with.

 

[Big T]

From the factory, your clutch had a 2 finger pull
The most likely cause is a chewed up clutch basket/inner hub.
You can band aid it all you want, you need to solve the actual problem

 

[bwringer]

The last thing remaining (assuming the hydraulic clutch gizmo is working as it should) may be the clutch release mechanism; the earwax grease inside the spiral ball/ramp mechanism gets washed out and/or turns nearly solid after 42 years, so you need to remove it, disassemble it completely, clean thoroughly and re-grease everything with a nice thick modern waterproof grease.

As others have said, stock is a nice light two-finger pull. Like buttuh. Don't accept crappy clutch action.

FWIW, if you go back to a cable (or if anyone else is watching who has clutch woes), OEM Suzuki cables and levers are the only ones worth messing with -- the aftermarket stuff is expensive, short-lived garbage. Routing the cable is also important; if you install a different handlebar, it's critical to avoid any sharper bends.


Also, once you get this figured out and if the hydraulic conversion is deemed successful, the GSR Hive Mind would greatly appreciate more details and pics... that said, I don't quite see why a hydraulic conversion would be necessary or desirable. These things are silky smooth and beautifully low-effort in properly functioning stock form.

 

[Guest]

Thanks for the advice. Looks like I'm soon to be stripping the clutch and re-greasing bits that need greasing. The hydraulic conversion was done because I could, no other reason.

While I am building up the courage to sit on a damp concrete floor to remove the clutch, does anyone know the length of the clutch spring bolts? From memory, when I originally removed the clutch many moons ago, the springs were held in with M6 x 25mm (I think) long bolts. I just replaced what I had removed with fresh shiny new ones. I am now wondering if the bolts are too short thus tensioning the clutch springs too much before they have to do any work.

 

[bwringer]

The clutch spring bolts bottom out when you install them, so the length of the bolt does not change the amount of tension.

That said, the length of the threaded portion is 16mm.

In many (but not all) Suzuki fastener part numbers, the bolt size is embedded in the part number. In this case, it's:
01500-06167

https://www.onlinecycleparts.com/oemparts/a/suz/50d3ff81f8700230d8b4df7a/clutch

So, "06" is the diameter, M6mm x 1.0mm thread pitch

"16" is the length of the bolt not including the head.

You can also see that there's supposed to be one washer. I have heard of people adding a washer to get more clutch spring tension. The OEM springs and gasket are relatively cheap, so the best advice is just to replace the springs every 25-30 years or so. Dang maintenance queens...

 

[Guest]

Thanks bwringer. As someone who sells nuts and bolts for a living I binned the ones I removed from the clutch when I first removed it. I have a relatively new set of springs, can't be more than 2 years old so those aren't the problem. I bought genuine Suzuki ones from Suzuki Performance Spares. I was just clutching at straws to put off the inevitable stripping and fixing. I'm not bad at the mechanics lark just lack the confidence to just dive in and do things.

Hopefully the weather is warm enough this weekend to disturb the hedgehog and start on the clutch.

Thanks for all the help and advice, if anyone out there has any warm weather they're not using can I borrow some for 6 months or so while I sort the clutch.

 

[Rich82GS750TZ]

.... I was just clutching at straws to put off the inevitable stripping and fixing.

Just want you to know that the pun didn't go unnoticed, and is appreciated.

Man, I can't wait for good riding weather, I'm going stir crazy.

 

[fastbysuzuki]

Are you sure that you purchased standard clutch springs? As suzuki performance spares generally sell uprated parts looking through their parts list on the net they only list heavy duty springs.
may well be an idea to get a set of standard springs from roblnsons foundry before you strip the clutch.

 

[Guest]

Almost positive. Will try the robinsons foundry before I start stripping the clutch. It was quite a few sleeps ago that I replaced the springs so anything's possible.

 

[bwringer]

Replacing clutch springs is easy and fast; you don't need to disassemble anything aside from removing the clutch cover.

0) Buy an OEM gasket and OEM springs. If you buy a gasket, the existing gasket will likely be re-usable if it's OEM. If you don't buy a gasket, it will tear. Some relative of Murphy's Law is at work here...

1) Place bike on kickstand. That way all the oil will run to the left and you won't lose any from the right side when you remove the clutch cover.

2) Remove clutch cover. On some bikes you have to remove the footpeg.

3) Remove and replace the bolts and springs one at a time.

4) Reassemble, adjust, and go ride.

 

[Guest]

New springs ordered. Will report back when Ihave replaced them. Might have to wait until the rain eases off.......maybe some time in August possibly before I can go out for a ride. Never been a fan of riding in the wet, daft really seeing as I live in the U.K.

Quick update, springs arrived today (5th March) looking promising, I can squish these springs a bit by hand where from memory the other 'standard' springs were as tough as hell to squish.

hopefully I can get the springs changed this weekend and post pictures of the hydraulic conversion.

 

[Guest]

Clutch assembly removed, all bearings inspected and greased. Everything that should move, moves freely everything that shouldn't move......doesn't. New springs have been been fitted. As soon as I get the gasket (thought I had one in the shed) I can finish off and see if anything has changed.

 

[Guest]

Update time. All bolted back together and adjusted. It has made a difference changing the springs and greasing the parts that benefit from a bit of grease. Clutch lever now operates with 3 fingers instead of 2 hands so progress.