HELP! 1980 GS850G Starts, but stumbles-Pops-won't rev??

[Darin Jordan]

One more quick question... can the intakes generally be reused if they aren't cracked and are still fairly flexible, or should one just replace them after all these years? Not against spending the $$ to do it right, but if it's not necesaary, Lord knows there are other areas of the bike that money can be spent on (like a new Stator upgrade, etc.)

Thanks again,

 

[Darin Jordan]

Quick update... Just ran out to the garage and was able to carefully remove the two stuck bolts from the 3 and 4 intake runners (lower bolt in each), so all the intakes are off.

The intake o-rings are very hard, and when I lay a machinist's rule across the mounting surface, I can see a gap between the rule and the o-ring. It appears on these intakes that the center aluminum ring is SLIGHTLY higher than the outter mounting surface? Is that correct?

Either way, the O-rings obviously need replacing. Not sure that's the whole problem, but we'll get new ones installed and some stainless socket-head fasterers (with anti-seize... Yup, BassCliff... I HAVE been reading your site! It's like a good Rootbeer and Rum... I can't stop! )

The intakes themselves, while dirty, appear to be intact and still flexible. I'll get them cleaned up today and inspect carefully. Would still like to hear from the experienced as to whether these should be replaced as a matter of maintenance, or if they are generally reusable.

Just have to wait for the O-Rings and Fasteners to show up...

 

[Darin Jordan]

I'm guessing this isn't a good thing.... Three out of the four intakes were able to have the rubber part pulled pretty easily away from the aluminum mounting base...

 

[Ranger]

Yeah you need new ones. They can be pretty pricey, I've seen them between 20 to 60 bucks each depending on the model

 

[Darin Jordan]

Yeah you need new ones. They can be pretty pricey, I've seen them between 20 to 60 bucks each depending on the model

Looks like BikeBandit has them... about $33.00 each. Can I assume that the 1980 GS850GT and GS850G (mine) would use the same part? That's the bike they have listed. I think they also list the GL...

Even with new ones, would it be a good idea to put a clamp around this end of the intake as well, to prevent this from happening again??

 

[Darin Jordan]

Even with new ones, would it be a good idea to put a clamp around this end of the intake as well, to prevent this from happening again??

Nevermind... I just looked at them again... that air tap screw is in the way...

 

[Darin Jordan]

New intakes on the way from BikeBandit... Seems this is a daily occurance at the moment... I think I've spent more on shipping than on parts at this point!

 

[Ranger]

New intakes on the way from BikeBandit... Seems this is a daily occurance at the moment... I think I've spent more on shipping than on parts at this point!

I'm not sure what you were asking as far as clamping? Do you mean should you clamp the intake boots with your carbs in them, then absolutly.

You want the thin kinds too so they seal better as the carbs have a little groove in them to make the best seal.

 

[Steve]

(I never did take all the carbs off the rack and replace the O-rings in the t-fittings)

Sorry, but if you did not take the rack apart, you have not yet cleaned the carbs. Even though it was only sitting for three months (according to a previous post), fuel can gum up in the little passages that can NOT be reached by spraying. The carbs have to be soaked overnight to clean them effectively. That requires removing them from the rack.

Pods and a kerker pipe, only 1 size up on the main jet and he's not lean...very interesting observation

Actually, Keith Krause calls that just half a size.
Regardless of how many sizes you want to increase, stock jets are 115, for your pods and a pipe, you should probably be in the 125-130 range.
I have a quiet (restrictive) pipe and stock airbox on my son's bike, and am running 120 mains.

They are suppose to be for a 1980 GS850GT. Mine is an 850G... Perhaps that's the issue with their size??

Just you know, you HAVE a GS850GT.

The T on the end is for the 1980 model year.

Looks like BikeBandit has them... about $33.00 each. Can I assume that the 1980 GS850GT and GS850G (mine) would use the same part? That's the bike they have listed. I think they also list the GL...

Even with new ones, would it be a good idea to put a clamp around this end of the intake as well, to prevent this from happening again??

Nothing wrong with Bike Bandit, except they tend to be the second most expensive supplier out there, behind Alpha Sports.
Did you get your Welcome Wagon thingy from BassCliff? Did you read through it? There is a sizeable list of vendors with commentaries.

As mentioned just above, you DO have a GS850GT. Saying it's a 1980 GS850 is redundant, because the T means that it's an '80.

.

 

[Ranger]

Nothing wrong with Bike Bandit, except they tend to be the second most expensive supplier out there, behind Alpha Sports.
Did you get your Welcome Wagon thingy from BassCliff? Did you read through it? There is a sizeable list of vendors with commentaries.

As mentioned just above, you DO have a GS850GT. Saying it's a 1980 GS850 is redundant, because the T means that it's an '80.

.

Actually they had the cheapest intake boots when I had bought mine and right now are having a sale on most things too.

 

[BassCliff]

Hi,

Prices, as of today, for intake boots for my 1980 GS850GT, part#13110-45100 (RH) and 13120-45100 (LH):

G&S Suzuki = $24.22
PartShark = $26.19
CyclePartsNation = $24.94
BikeBandit = $32.82

Documentation for my intake boot replacement:

Air Intake Repair: Airbox removal, intake boots and O-ring replacement​

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[Darin Jordan]

You guys rock... thanks for the information. It's invaluable to guys like me!

I haven't completely read through BassCliff's welcome yet. Would have likely saved me about $7.00 an intake if I had. Time is sparse... I work on this stuff in spurts of time... between kids and work, and my other hobby... which is racing and developing Remote Control boats for ProBoat Model Boats...

I will take the time to read through it over the next week though.

As for completely cleaning the carbs... Let me get the intake tract completely sealed, and see where I am. I'll pull them completely down if this doesn't work. I have already ordered the complete O-Ring kit, so I'll already have the pieces.

 

[Ranger]

Call BikeBandit and show them the prices. They have a lowest price guarantee and might credit you the difference.

 

[TheCafeKid]

Good call, didn't realize that. But still for the time being.... he's not lean

I still doubt thats the cause of his problem. Personally I'd been running stock mains with raised needles and cracked headers at the flange and running lean but completely rideable.

If you're doubting he's lean and it's not his problem you need to get cracking on your carburetor studies. To begin with, CV type carbs ( which any GS built after 1979 came with) are extremely sensitive to changes in air flow. They require air to move the slides. That air flow is dictated by the design of the carb and the airbox it was fitted with. Remove the airbox and you have to compensate in multiple ways for the additional air flow. All circuits except the pilot circuit will be effected by this change. But, to keep it quite simple, you CANNOT jet CV carbs for pods and a pipe by simply changing the main jet size. The stock needles are too fat and slow tapered to compensate for the added air. You will be lean SOMEWHERE if not everywhere past the idle circuit. The bike will continue to fall on it's face somewhere in the rev range. Either get an airbox for it or a dynojet kit. To try to do anything else is folly. A waste of time and WILL cause damage eventually to your combustion chambers and or valves. And this goes for both his bike and yours. "rideable" is a very grey area. If it runs like crap but still rides I suppose it's rideable. For now.

 

[TheCafeKid]

Btw I meant to add the colour of his plugs mean jack all sitting on choke or idle in the garage. You can't read a plug when there's been no load put on the motor. The idle circuit may be functioning perfectly, but there's still more or less three stages that need tuned beyond that. Brown black tan grey purple. Doesn't matter if it's just sitting there.

 

[Darin Jordan]

Guys... just to be clear... the bike won't even really rev past idle... it boggs down like it's fuel starved, and just barely is running. Even at idle, it's popping back through the carbs and such, similiar to how it would if the timing were off. I even double checked the spark plug order just to make sure they were hooked up correctly.

I will definitely work on the jetting as you are recommending, but I think that the major issue is likely the air leaking in past the intakes. That ought to get it up off of idle and let it at least run. Once there, I'll absolutely do what you are suggesting and get the thing jetted correctly. Just making sure everything else is correct and not contributing to the problem first.

And, I DO have the factory airbox, with all new rubber bits, but I just wasn't going to use it if I didn't have to. Seems to me that there is better performance to be had by freeing up the intake and jetting accordingly. Making something run "right" by restricting the airflow seems counter-productive to attaining any kind of performance. I'm certainly willing to do the work to make it run right with the Pods... especially if it's worth a few HP....

 

[TheCafeKid]

I agree you need to check your intake boots for leaks. Airbox or no that will only contribute to the problems. However when you say "make something run right by restricting the air flow" you need to keep in mind that this is not a car. It does t have one carburetor feeding four cylinder or six or whathaveyou. It's got a carb for each cylinder. And those were tuned with the airbox fitted. For each cylinder. The margin for error is sooo much smaller here. Where a car may run ok with a change in air filter or exhaust, these simply will not. I'm not telling you this to make your job more difficult or to disuade you from using the pods. I'm telling you this so you know. You can fiddle fart around with this bike all spring and summer trying to get it right and I'm telling you from years of experience and many many bikes it simply won't ever be right without the jet kit. It's not the jets. It's the needles.

 

[TheCafeKid]

And btw again. The HP gain from a correctly set up bike with these mods is modest at best. If you've never ridden the thing stock, you're never going to notice. And even then it's so small the headache almost isn't worth it. Remember you have the second heaviest GS ever produced. No slouch mind you as BWringer can tell you, but one ridden well stock will spank a nodded one with a crappy rider. Spend your bucks on fork springs and new shocks. Those will actually save your life. Lol

 

[Steve]

Guys... just to be clear... the bike won't even really rev past idle... it boggs down like it's fuel starved, and just barely is running. ... And, I DO have the factory airbox, with all new rubber bits, but I just wasn't going to use it if I didn't have to. ...

OK, just to be clear, you do have an airbox. Is it installed? :-k

If you don't have an airbox of any type installed, that is your problem.

If you don't have it installed, do one simple thing for "proof of concept", if you will:
Take a (clean) shop rag, fold it in half. If you have a helper, have them hold it over the carb intakes. If you don't have a helper, use hose clamps or zip-ties to hold the rag to the outer carbs, keeping it taut over the inner carbs. Start the bike. Notice how much BETTER it runs. If everything else is somewhat correct, you can actually take it around the block, but it won't be good enough to do jetting checks.

.

 

[Darin Jordan]

OK, so are you guys telling me that this thing can't be made to run WELL with K&N Pods, or that it's going to be some needle/jetting work? I can go either way. I have the stock airbox with all the parts, and I now have the K&Ns here as well. I can clean up the stock box, put on the new rubber parts that I have with it, and put it on. I'd really prefer the look of the pods, however. Is it really that much trouble to get them to work?