The R100S is a gorgeous bike. I'd love to own one. They do have a TON of suspension travel, and they are slow to turn, relatively speaking, but what beautiful machines, and what incredibly reliable beasts they are.
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Is there such a thing as a cheap Beemer?
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Saw a R100S today at the OC Vintage bike meet, what a beauty. And about the same time, my son sent me a pic of a 1950 R51/2 he saw at the OC Fair. It's modified a bit, with an upgraded front brake, a different tank, fender, and rear seat. Very nice.
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Gorgeous machines-and gorgeous.
Funny detail-I had a black/yellow FZ1 like the one in the background for over 5 years.
Funny detail-I had a black/yellow FZ1 like the one in the background for over 5 years.
I spoke to a close friend of mine, about me fixing up his R90/6 airhead as a winter project.
I'm board so I'll pick it up in a couple weeks.
I did read up on them, the pre 1981 bikes have a heavy flywheel, so that slows the pickup.
Single 260mm brake disc with a single piston caliper is way too weak, so that's gotta be upgraded.
There is a supplier for brake upgrade kits, but the site looks flaky. I'll try contacting them.
I'm board so I'll pick it up in a couple weeks.
I did read up on them, the pre 1981 bikes have a heavy flywheel, so that slows the pickup.
Single 260mm brake disc with a single piston caliper is way too weak, so that's gotta be upgraded.
There is a supplier for brake upgrade kits, but the site looks flaky. I'll try contacting them.
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Funny, I talked to a guy yesterday who came to my place to buy a coffee table. Saw my Norton and GS's and chatted about bikes and stuff. He was about my age and knew friends from the 80s in Costa Mesa, CA. He mentioned Reg Pridmore, said his friend's dad owned a shop in Santa Barbara was involved very early on in his racing career in SoCal, mid-70s. Simpler times.
I truly miss those times.
I have not responded to this thread before, cuz discussing the old "air heads" is quite different from the bikes from after the mid-late 90s.
I had an idea of BMW haveing great realiability,
Ah, you are more intersted in the old airheads.
Hum... think of some of the "old airheads", say, R75/7, R90/6... they had those for decades, and not many variations.
I dont have much familiarity with the various models, other than, the slash number tell you about when in history. ANd the first letter is more about the body style, and the, say 75 is 750cc. Some models are more common than others. SOme are more saught out than others.
ANd when folks say they are relaibble, it because there was enogh of them made for so long that some folks are aware of typical problems and what needs to be done for maintance to avaoid those problem, or what spare parts to carry. I have heard of long istance riders carring carb diaphrams for instance.
Thru all this I learned about BMW in early 90s (?late 80s?) combined the automotive engineering group with the motorcycle group. SO they had more resocurces for developing more and more motorcycle models. ANd did.
I had an idea of BMW haveing great realiability,
THen in 2015, I got a 2002 R1150RT, (in SanDiego, but I'll skip that aspect of the story), after talking to a couple fine members here, but they had R1100RT from the previous 10 or so years. Is called Oil Head for the oil cooler and oil spray behind the pistions.
After a while I learnt that the 1150 engine and associted models was a redesign of the 1100 engine, the clutch, the transmission, the brake system, the final drive, the fuel injection system, the ignition system. All in one year. And some of those had some functional problems and most of them had relibility problems.
And.... I had the the splines on the transmission shaft (where spines to clutch plate) strip out. One of the known problems (long discussion, but, even me looking at the wear pattern, I immeadialty said "missalignment".) ANd anywork on transmission/cluch involved dissassembling everything from the engine back. I had transmission and cluth replaced with a rebuilt set.
THen three years later (but few miles) on my Ride-RT-Home Trip, the final drive crapped out. Had that replaced with a salvage unit (THanks BWringer & Tim twr), that lasted a couple years before it had the same failure.
Other common problem was the braking system had a hydraulic pump for the "servo brakes" that was problematic, but, oh man, strong brakes, the bike at highway speed could stop so hard I could barley keep myself on the bike.
Other common problem was the ignition/fueling surging/jerking at low rpm. I didnt have that. (the 2003?04? added 2nd plug to cyclinder to help that, somehow).
So, anybody with any familiarty of BMW, would know to avoid the 1150s espically the 2002. I did not know that.
Okay, I have babbled on about my 2002 R1150RT.
THe RT and others were redesigned for 2005 as a 1200 (gee, 1150 only 3 years,). Called Hex Head for the shape. And some time later 2018 or so, was water cooled (with different nick name), and a few more years later redesigned so the clutch is in front of the engine so more easily serviced.
Thru all this I learned about BMW in early 90s (?late 80s?) combined the automotive developement group with the motorcycle group. SO they had more resocurces for developing more and more models. ANd did.
So, why?.? did I get anoter RT .?.?
THe 02 R1150RT was at the dealer for some overdue maintance, and they discovered the rear drive failing, ...... the cost of the repair and the maintance well exceed the value of the bike.
THe dealer gave me a good "trade in value" on the bike, so I applied that to a used 09 R1200RT they had. (I will admitt, I first went to big multi-brand dealer to look.)
More recent models have drive shaft issues. I understand that some models it is routine maintance to swap out the drive shaft at a certain milage, cost covered by BMW.
Some folks say that BMW offered to cover that cost due to the bad repretation that occured with the 1150 where they only covered it if happend during warrentee, and never admitted a problem.
I had an idea of BMW haveing great realiability,
Ah, you are more intersted in the old airheads.
Hum... think of some of the "old airheads", say, R75/7, R90/6... they had those for decades, and not many variations.
I dont have much familiarity with the various models, other than, the slash number tell you about when in history. ANd the first letter is more about the body style, and the, say 75 is 750cc. Some models are more common than others. SOme are more saught out than others.
ANd when folks say they are relaibble, it because there was enogh of them made for so long that some folks are aware of typical problems and what needs to be done for maintance to avaoid those problem, or what spare parts to carry. I have heard of long istance riders carring carb diaphrams for instance.
Thru all this I learned about BMW in early 90s (?late 80s?) combined the automotive engineering group with the motorcycle group. SO they had more resocurces for developing more and more motorcycle models. ANd did.
I had an idea of BMW haveing great realiability,
THen in 2015, I got a 2002 R1150RT, (in SanDiego, but I'll skip that aspect of the story), after talking to a couple fine members here, but they had R1100RT from the previous 10 or so years. Is called Oil Head for the oil cooler and oil spray behind the pistions.
After a while I learnt that the 1150 engine and associted models was a redesign of the 1100 engine, the clutch, the transmission, the brake system, the final drive, the fuel injection system, the ignition system. All in one year. And some of those had some functional problems and most of them had relibility problems.
And.... I had the the splines on the transmission shaft (where spines to clutch plate) strip out. One of the known problems (long discussion, but, even me looking at the wear pattern, I immeadialty said "missalignment".) ANd anywork on transmission/cluch involved dissassembling everything from the engine back. I had transmission and cluth replaced with a rebuilt set.
THen three years later (but few miles) on my Ride-RT-Home Trip, the final drive crapped out. Had that replaced with a salvage unit (THanks BWringer & Tim twr), that lasted a couple years before it had the same failure.
Other common problem was the braking system had a hydraulic pump for the "servo brakes" that was problematic, but, oh man, strong brakes, the bike at highway speed could stop so hard I could barley keep myself on the bike.
Other common problem was the ignition/fueling surging/jerking at low rpm. I didnt have that. (the 2003?04? added 2nd plug to cyclinder to help that, somehow).
So, anybody with any familiarty of BMW, would know to avoid the 1150s espically the 2002. I did not know that.
Okay, I have babbled on about my 2002 R1150RT.
THe RT and others were redesigned for 2005 as a 1200 (gee, 1150 only 3 years,). Called Hex Head for the shape. And some time later 2018 or so, was water cooled (with different nick name), and a few more years later redesigned so the clutch is in front of the engine so more easily serviced.
Thru all this I learned about BMW in early 90s (?late 80s?) combined the automotive developement group with the motorcycle group. SO they had more resocurces for developing more and more models. ANd did.
So, why?.? did I get anoter RT .?.?
THe 02 R1150RT was at the dealer for some overdue maintance, and they discovered the rear drive failing, ...... the cost of the repair and the maintance well exceed the value of the bike.
THe dealer gave me a good "trade in value" on the bike, so I applied that to a used 09 R1200RT they had. (I will admitt, I first went to big multi-brand dealer to look.)
More recent models have drive shaft issues. I understand that some models it is routine maintance to swap out the drive shaft at a certain milage, cost covered by BMW.
Some folks say that BMW offered to cover that cost due to the bad repretation that occured with the 1150 where they only covered it if happend during warrentee, and never admitted a problem.
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Thanks for telling your sad tale, Dave.
The moral of the story is that you have to be SUPER careful and do a lot of research before buying a BMW. The final drive issues in the early 2000s were no joke, and stranded a lot of riders. Including Dave. Twice. Quite a few were injured, too, and I've seen photos of bikes on fire.
BMW never, not once, admitted to a problem, even though holding the parts in your hand it's obvious this incredibly delicate design and that thin bearing is never going to hold up in the real world. The brakes on that model were another absolutely brainless system, created in a lab with no exposure to the outside world.
All that said, one issue with doing this sort of research is that there's also a lot of confusion and bad info out there, including plenty of people who confidently assert that BMW never did and still can't make a final drive that doesn't fail. So there's a lot of untangling to be done.
In case you haven't noticed, Suzuki parts have gotten ridiculously expensive as well. There are sources for BMW parts, and there's plenty of support out there. However, like everything else vintage the population of people interested in the older bikes is dwindling as the owners go where motorcycles are no longer needed. So prices are tumbling, but maybe not fast enough.
So obviously, what you need to do is buy at least two bikes; one to ride, one or more for parts...
The moral of the story is that you have to be SUPER careful and do a lot of research before buying a BMW. The final drive issues in the early 2000s were no joke, and stranded a lot of riders. Including Dave. Twice. Quite a few were injured, too, and I've seen photos of bikes on fire.
BMW never, not once, admitted to a problem, even though holding the parts in your hand it's obvious this incredibly delicate design and that thin bearing is never going to hold up in the real world. The brakes on that model were another absolutely brainless system, created in a lab with no exposure to the outside world.
All that said, one issue with doing this sort of research is that there's also a lot of confusion and bad info out there, including plenty of people who confidently assert that BMW never did and still can't make a final drive that doesn't fail. So there's a lot of untangling to be done.
In case you haven't noticed, Suzuki parts have gotten ridiculously expensive as well. There are sources for BMW parts, and there's plenty of support out there. However, like everything else vintage the population of people interested in the older bikes is dwindling as the owners go where motorcycles are no longer needed. So prices are tumbling, but maybe not fast enough.
So obviously, what you need to do is buy at least two bikes; one to ride, one or more for parts...
Apparently, BMW motorcycles are similar to their cars, in that they have good vehicle dynamics, and power, but crap reliability. Airheads excluded, maybe, but since that point, they are NOT the reliable vehicles that their reputation suggests.
I never had the slightest problem with the final drive on my R80/100RT, and it got a good hammering, first from the polis and then me.
The only wear item was the splined hub, same as the Zuk.
And rear wheel bearings, it let me down once, but that was an old set still in it from polis years.
What amazed me when hearing about all the FD failures on the later ones was "why?" They already knew how to make a good one.
I suppose a new tranche of designers, that paid no attention to the hard-won knowledge of those who'd gone before.
I had an 83 R100RT and now a 97 R1100R. Cheap means being able to do the work yourself as we all know. The fuel injected R1100R is a bit of a challenge as there is only one TP sensor and getting balance right is tricky.... almost impossible ... but essential for big jugs... thank you carbtune 
If cheap is purchase price the sweet spot here are the plastic coated R and K touring bikes from the noughties. Airheads are beyond any kind of sense.
If cheap is purchase price the sweet spot here are the plastic coated R and K touring bikes from the noughties. Airheads are beyond any kind of sense.
From my experience of the failed final drive, the guy who repaired mine claims to have repaired over 350 units, they all had the same problem.
That problem was the shimming done at the factory was off but as much as 10 mm. Either too loose or too tight from the beginning.
I guess bmw couldn't be bothered by it since it would be coming back to the stealerships for a hefty price to fix it.
German engineering my azz
.
That problem was the shimming done at the factory was off but as much as 10 mm. Either too loose or too tight from the beginning.
I guess bmw couldn't be bothered by it since it would be coming back to the stealerships for a hefty price to fix it.
German engineering my azz
.