The Fear of Failure (First time restoration woes)

[acr88_]

Greetings and happy holidays!

I'm currently restoring a 1981 GS750E. It's my first time restoring a classic bike like this (well actually a conversion to a cafe racer) and I wanted to know if others shared similar feelings or fears of not being able to get your project running again?

I had been riding the 750 for a couple months stock before I decided to start working on it. However, every other day I have this major anxiety that I'll never be able to get it to run again, regardless of all the work thus far going very smoothly. We're at about 75/80% at this point.

Any of you relate, or veterans members remember the times like these?

Screenshot 2022-12-07 at 2.58.41 PM by Adam Ridley, on Flickr

 

[Cipher]

If it runs now with pods just don't mod the carburetion and stick to sawzall lopping off of the parts that make it a practical safe and enjoyable machine.
Zyou've already got no front fender do next would be a sharpie to emblazon a bullseye onto your forehead so as to gauge stone throw accuracy.

 

[acr88_]

If it runs now with pods just don't mod the carburetion and stick to sawzall lopping off of the parts that make it a practical safe and enjoyable machine.
Zyou've already got no front fender do next would be a sharpie to emblazon a bullseye onto your forehead so as to gauge stone throw accuracy.

Full face helms only!

 

[nvr2old]

Take many, many pictures of the way something is mounted, where wires go. Bag and tag all your bolts and fasteners to where they go. It's amazing how many things you'll forget during a complete tear down. Document everything. These bikes come apart and go back together fairly easily as long as you remember what goes where and the sequence of how it came apart.

 

[acr88_]

Take many, many pictures of the way something is mounted, where wires go. Bag and tag all your bolts and fasteners to where they go. It's amazing how many things you'll forget during a complete tear down. Document everything. These bikes come apart and go back together fairly easily as long as you remember what goes where and the sequence of how it came apart.

Much appreciated brother! Learning a bit the hard way in the beginning as I didn't think to take pics of how things were set up till a little later in the build. I did have to end up researching how to put some things back together :indecisiveness: Thank goodness for YouTube University lol.

 

[1978GS750E]

Don't worry!

If you make a cafe' racer it really doesn't matter if you get it back together. How many cafe' racers do you see while you are out on the road??? Most (if ever finished) wind up way overpriced for sale on Facebook marketplace because they are so uncomfortable to ride any distance!

Keep it stock and ride the wheels off of it! (Just my .02) Your bike, your decision! Good luck whatever you decide!

 

[acr88_]

Don't worry!

If you make a cafe' racer it really doesn't matter if you get it back together. How many cafe' racers do you see while you are out on the road??? Most (if ever finished) wind up way overpriced for sale on Facebook marketplace because they are so uncomfortable to ride any distance!

Keep it stock and ride the wheels off of it! (Just my .02) Your bike, your decision! Good luck whatever you decide!

PS, your sig kills me lmao! "When I die, just cremate me and put me in my GS tank. That way I can go through these carbs, one more time!​

 

[rphillips]

I'm kind'f like Ron. You've got a pretty decent looking and running old bike, why mess it up to make something that will probably get parked and almost forgotten. Old cheap bikes are around, anything will make a cafe', find one from a fence row or old barn or shed, cafe' it, then you can have both instead of possibly neither, if you don't finish this one or find it ain't what you'd thought it was gonn'a be.... Will be pulling for you whatever you do... I also have always loved his going through the carbs one more tine thing.

 

[acr88_]

I'm kind'f like Ron. You've got a pretty decent looking and running old bike, why mess it up to make something that will probably get parked and almost forgotten. Old cheap bikes are around, anything will make a cafe', find one from a fence row or old barn or shed, cafe' it, then you can have both instead of possibly neither, if you don't finish this one or find it ain't what you'd thought it was gonn'a be.... Will be pulling for you whatever you do... I also have always loved his going through the carbs one more tine thing.

You make a strong point about the ergonomics of a cafe racer. I'm familiar with the discomfort as my daily (Ninja 650R "Jezebel I") has a pan bobber seat with down swept handles. I can't ride her for more than 2 hours before needing a long break, you're practically half tank hugging the whole time (lower back oof)

BFB4CE50-7652-490C-9D33-39C23B31925B by Adam Ridley, on Flickr

 

[allojohn]

Don't worry!

Keep it stock and ride the wheels off of it! (Just my .02) Your bike, your decision! Good luck whatever you decide!

+1 on this - although it was taking notice of the Cafe' resurgence that got me back on a bike!

 

[nvr2old]

Not all cafe' bikes are trashed out, cut up, and dangerous to ride. Some are..for sure..but I've seen just as many well-built cafe' bikes that are gorgeous. I have 2 vintage cafe' bikes and both have been show winners and have had magazine features on them. Best of luck on your build, we'll look forward to the progress.

 

[Suzukian]

Please, put that front Fender back on, or at the very least, a Fork Brace, so your bike will start handling the way it should. Is this bike a good candidate for a Cafe Racer, depends, if you're going for looks, anything could be made to look like a Cafe Racer. I've seen some single cylinder dirt bikes converted to excellent, find road handling Cafe Racers. Your bike is a heavy bike. You could always get a 4 into 1 exhaust, and have the bike jetted properly for that. It would knock off some weight. I think some flat bars, or almost flat, would give the bike a sleeker profile, and a good 1/4 fairing would give you some visual satisfaction. I wouldn't do much else to it though. It's a heavy bike, and it's good at doing what it was designed for, riding reasonably fast, for long distances.

Removing the front fender removed the fork brace that was built into it. That will negatively affect the handling The idea of Cafe bikes was minimalism, then make them handle better. You also could buy a really good set of shocks. Those stock ones were shot a year after the bike was made. You have a rider there, and will get much more enjoyment riding it, rather than chopping it into something it was never meant to be.

If you want a Cafe Racer, buy a lighter, maybe even smaller displacement bike, like a 600 cc, which go much faster than your bike. Research what other people have done, and then proceed with the 2nd bike, not the one you ride.Lots of 600 cc bikes out there that need cosmetic work, you want one that runs great, but needs everything else, that way you can get it cheap and make it truly yours. IMO.

 

[Suzukian]

I might go for something like this for your bike, still comfortable, fork brace back on. Keep on the air box on though, and get exhaust with slip on pipes. Much easier on the engine than trying to tune in K&N's Pods that eat up your rings. I just noticed this idiot took off the shocks to lower it. You can buy really nice shocks that will make handle better than the ancient stock ones you have on yours.

 

[JMHJ]

Keep on the air box on though, and get exhaust with slip on pipes. Much easier on the engine than trying to tune in K&N's Pods that eat up your rings.

Never heard that before (eating up the rings); could you elaborate a little, if it's not a thread hijack to ask... Tks.

Sticking with the subject though, I like the stock look. I'm still getting used to the turn signals molded into the fairing and tail piece (don't know what to call it) on my '97 ZX-1100. Used to bikes with the big stalks and nice sized amber lenses. Never minded that, personally...

 

[bwringer]

The biggest issues I've seen are making massive, irreversible modifications without having any idea how the bike can or should work, and/or making modifications based on aesthetics.

For example, that black bike in Suzukian's post is a showcase of the most common mistakes made in the name of aesthetics, with zero understanding of or regard for function -- and often with zero budget except for hacksaw blades: lopping off the tail, open hacked-up exhaust dragging the ground and inducing splitting headaches (if it runs), lowering or removing the shocks, lowering the fork, no airbox (no attempt at air cleaners, either), "cafe" handlebars, bodgey dodgey stuff done to achieve the see-through look in the emiddle, etc. I'm sure with a less blurry photo we could spot many more. Let's just say it's obvious this bike was pushed there...

We're not just being old fuddy-duddies when we tell people to get their bike running, working, and handling correctly first before modifying it. You need a baseline that's not just "old bike that can barely move or stop and handles like a log wagon".

I'd also say that both getting in a hurry and going too slow totally de-rail projects. Cutting corners to make a deadline never turns out well, and of course running out of momentum, interest, and budget is the fate of the majority of these projects.

Yes, it's going to cost more money and time than you think. If you're not willing to spend the money and time it takes to get it right, then find a cheaper hobby until you save up the bucks or make the space in your life.

And the idea of making a profit by lopping the arse end off an old Suzuki to magically make it a "cafe bike" (lots of illiterates selling a "chooper" or "boober" on CrackList) is just plain laughable, yet it's been tried over and over and over again with little result. Thankfully this has declined somewhat with the decline in the idiotic chopper reality shows. It's not an "investment"; it's a fun hobby you spend a lot of money on; like golf or fishing except a lot more fun.


Anyway, on the positive side: a motorcycle is a somewhat complex thing, but it is a finite thing. Keep making progress -- do something every day or at least every week to move the project forward, and you will get there. Don't shortcut just because you "wanna hear it run". Take care of the "hidden" stuff; for example, replace the steering stem bearings and set the valve clearances correctly. Do the wiring correctly. As long as the engine has compression, it WILL run when given the air, fuel, and spark it wants. Maybe save the fancy paint for last...

Have a few functioning bikes to ride while the project is in progress.

 

[bwringer]

Never heard that before (eating up the rings); could you elaborate a little, if it's not a thread hijack to ask... Tks.

K&N oiled cotton filters inevitably touch off forum holy wars (here we go...), but what he was referring to is that there is quite a bit of testing indicating that K&N air filters (whether pods or stock replacements) allow somewhat more dirt through than OEM oiled foam or paper filters. They do increase potential airflow, a little, in some applications, but this also makes no difference in the vast majority of applications. It's also been noted that many stock replacement K&N filters are poorly made and don't seal properly around the edges, or don't fit correctly in the airboxes.

The added dirt that makes it through K&Ns causes, among other things, more rapid ring wear.

The True Believers in the One True Holy Church of K&N, of course, vehemently deny all the above. Perhaps some will be along shortly to howl about this. They tend to get very, very offended.

Some Disciples of the OTHCoK&N also believe that K&N filters save money over disposable paper filters. The economics are marginal and dubious, given the cost of the cleaning and re-oiling materials, and the significant added time required for cleaning, hours of drying, and re-oiling.


All the above said: K&N pod air filters are usually regarded as among the least worst options available, if you are bound and determined to use pods and willing to push through the resulting jetting nightmare (especially with CV carbs). There are Emgo pods, for example, that are cheap, poor imitations and are not recommended under any circumstances.

There are oiled foam pods from Uni that should filter more adequately, but I think many people skip them out of aesthetic concerns; the K&Ns look cooler, while the Uni pods are red or green or black foam socks.

https://unifilter.com/online-catalog/clamp-on-air-filters/
I like how the last items on the page are foam socks meant to go over K&N pods and help them filter better... LOL.

 

[Nessism]

There is a reason K&N's flow lots of air. They don't scrub it particularly well, removing dirt. For most people, this won't matter. If you plan to keep your bike for decades, it can, though.

I'm with Brian regarding hack rebuilds. A crummy seat, loud hack exhaust, and diminished suspension = form over function. Just say NO.

 

[Suzukian]

I agree that the picture I posted was a hack job. I was more referring to a look I'm happy you guys pointed out the hacking. You can make a bike to your liking by studying what others have done, then do yours the right way. There are so many talented people on this forum, you should have no trouble with that. It would be interesting to se what style you are going for. A nice quarter fairing, flat bars, good shocks can spiffy up any bike. A good place to start. Get the handling done first.

I would say my Yoshima CB458cc Stage III (1975 CB400F) classifies as a true Cafe Racer. Yoshima Hand bent the pipes for me, forged pistons, flow benched the carbs through the cylinder head, which he ported, and hand bent exhaust system. I purchased the forged pistons he recommended. He bored out and turned them into smooth bores. The bike red lines at 14,5000 rpm's. The list would be too long to post, (like shot peened rods, Futura rear sets, D.I.D. aluminum Gold anodized rims. Koni Aluminum Body shocks, etc) This was back in 1977. The overhead cam chain cost me $300 bucks back then. The bike now only has 8K miles on it, but it is pickled and parked in my very dry barn.

Think about what you want out of the bike. I wanted a 1000cc bike eater that handled exceptionally well, and I could do it with that bike, which didn't weight much more than 300 lbs.
It cost a lot, now that I think about it, nut I had put 60K miles on before the rebuild. Everyone who sees that bike offers me money for it but it is not for sale. I even keep it covered but, so people don't notice it,

 

[gtem]

I'll join the choir: leave that poor bike alone. Brian is spot on: too many of these builds are motivated entirely by aesthetics, which lead the owners to turning a nice running stock bike into un-rideable, poorly running junk. I'd focus on getting the engine/fueling sorted out 100% before doing anything else.

I did five "resurrections" last year including two old GSes that had been sitting since the 80s. I keep a dry erase board and even a spreadsheet on my computer to plan out what needs done, and as Peter Egan once advised in his column, I try to do one small thing on the project bike per day, no matter how small. Order a part, clean something, install one small part, etc.

 

[storm 64]

I agree that the picture I posted was a hack job. I was more referring to a look I'm happy you guys pointed out the hacking. You can make a bike to your liking by studying what others have done, then do yours the right way. There are so many talented people on this forum, you should have no trouble with that. It would be interesting to se what style you are going for. A nice quarter fairing, flat bars, good shocks can spiffy up any bike. A good place to start. Get the handling done first.

I would say my Yoshima CB458cc Stage III (1975 CB400F) classifies as a true Cafe Racer. Yoshima Hand bent the pipes for me, forged pistons, flow benched the carbs through the cylinder head, which he ported, and hand bent exhaust system. I purchased the forged pistons he recommended. He bored out and turned them into smooth bores. The bike red lines at 14,5000 rpm's. The list would be too long to post, (like shot peened rods, Futura rear sets, D.I.D. aluminum Gold anodized rims. Koni Aluminum Body shocks, etc) This was back in 1977. The overhead cam chain cost me $300 bucks back then. The bike now only has 8K miles on it, but it is pickled and parked in my very dry barn.

Think about what you want out of the bike. I wanted a 1000cc bike eater that handled exceptionally well, and I could do it with that bike, which didn't weight much more than 300 lbs.
It cost a lot, now that I think about it, nut I had put 60K miles on before the rebuild. Everyone who sees that bike offers me money for it but it is not for sale. I even keep it covered but, so people don't notice it,

I'd like to see a picture of said motorcycle.... I promise I won't offer you any money for it!