No, the only alternate disc is the GS550 one. They can be picked up cheap enough and cross-drilled to look similar to the later ones though...
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Twinpot Brake upgrade on 78 Skunk
- Thread starter salty_monk
- Start date
No, the only alternate disc is the GS550 one. They can be picked up cheap enough and cross-drilled to look similar to the later ones though...
Ok, thanks. I take it the GS550 disc is the right dish/offset and diameter, needing no mods other than some drilling?
Yes, you can run the factory 295 mm rotors, but due to the different steel alloys and brake pad compounds used in the 70s and early 80s, the pads for the upgrade calipers will tear up the old rotors quickly.
Also somewhat related to that, it's not a good idea to use worn rotors with any grooving or anything of that sort and then swap to a different set of rotors on those same pads. The pads will not say consistently bedded in, and I suspect the breaking performance will be downgraded a bit. I would keep the same set of rotors matched to the pads if you want the best performance.
I found it interesting after telling my wife to look into these Tokico brake calipers & a custom DIY bracket, & forego all of these $800 dual disc aftermarket brake caliper sets for her '86 Harley FXR front end upgrade (crash replacement/huge upgrade to $975 rebuilt 39mm "Jap" Showa fully adjustable XL1200S Sportster Sport forks), that it turns out that Still Kicking Moto sells CNC aluminum adapter brackets to use these brakes on 1999 and earlier Harley Davidson dual disc forks with 292mm (11.5") rotors!
Quite the popular choice all around! At least for those Harley owners that don't use the word "Jap" as a racial slur when describing our bikes!
I know this caliper or this family of malphurs rather is also used by other circles of bike enthusiasts for different models, but I think that our GS useage maybe the most widely used and documented, thanks to Dan the Salty Monk!
They actually recommend the SV650 type of Tokico caliper for the Still Kicking Moto '99 & earlier Harley upgrade, but they are nearly the same thing, but use 2 pistons of the same larger size, rather than having the trailing pistons being a slightly smaller diameter (I believe doing this leads to less chatter and squeal due to toe-in tendencies, but wear more unevenly), and also the mounting brackets are not universal left and right on this other style, so both the caliper and the mounting bracket are side specific. The calipers we use on the GS upgrade mount exactly the same, and the calipers are handed left and right, but the mounting brackets can be taken off the calipers and are identical when flipped around to the other side.
https://www.hotbikeweb.com/first-gen-39mm-dual-disc-upgrade#page-20
I'm pretty certain that we could utilize these SV650 and EX650 (600?) calipers as well, they should bolt up the same as far as I can tell. I have an ADP version that looks just like them from a later GS500 after they stopped using the Tokico caliper on the GS500. The only difference is the hydraulic leverage ratio. Using a master cylinder with a slightly larger bore by 1 mm or so might benefit? Or just get the matched master cylinder off of those bikes.
Quite the popular choice all around! At least for those Harley owners that don't use the word "Jap" as a racial slur when describing our bikes!
I know this caliper or this family of malphurs rather is also used by other circles of bike enthusiasts for different models, but I think that our GS useage maybe the most widely used and documented, thanks to Dan the Salty Monk!
They actually recommend the SV650 type of Tokico caliper for the Still Kicking Moto '99 & earlier Harley upgrade, but they are nearly the same thing, but use 2 pistons of the same larger size, rather than having the trailing pistons being a slightly smaller diameter (I believe doing this leads to less chatter and squeal due to toe-in tendencies, but wear more unevenly), and also the mounting brackets are not universal left and right on this other style, so both the caliper and the mounting bracket are side specific. The calipers we use on the GS upgrade mount exactly the same, and the calipers are handed left and right, but the mounting brackets can be taken off the calipers and are identical when flipped around to the other side.
https://www.hotbikeweb.com/first-gen-39mm-dual-disc-upgrade#page-20
I'm pretty certain that we could utilize these SV650 and EX650 (600?) calipers as well, they should bolt up the same as far as I can tell. I have an ADP version that looks just like them from a later GS500 after they stopped using the Tokico caliper on the GS500. The only difference is the hydraulic leverage ratio. Using a master cylinder with a slightly larger bore by 1 mm or so might benefit? Or just get the matched master cylinder off of those bikes.
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Right, that's what I need to know.
I use engine braking a lot, so my pads and discs get an easier time of it. I haven't yet worn a disc to the point of it needing to be replaced, and the only one in my possession that's close to it had the wear put on it by the PO.
Mind you, that's all with older tech pads... so maybe the pads for Kwak calipers might be more aggressive. There's always a option of finding the least aggressive ones.
The stock disks for the dual brake bikes are 274mm dia. You can't use those with the caliper. You need to use the larger ones from the GS550 or the single brake GS750 / GS1000. The material is not right for the pads you can get for the twinpot caliper so the pads in theory would tear up the disk but in practice we've had members do many miles with no problems. I put about 3,000 miles on that setup with no appreciable wear showing early on...
A bracket to fit the 274mm disk is not really workable due to the clearances (it becomes a four bolt bracket instead of a 3).
The later ninja caliper does not feel as good as the earlier one and the mounts are not the same so the bracket needs to be different, the clearances are much tighter but it is now in more plentiful supply so I may switch over at some point in the future is there is still demand. I have played with them a bit & have a couple of sets on my shelf. The V-strom & SV guys go up to GSXR calipers (their forks are wide enough) whilst the KLR guys and plenty of others go up to the Ninja ones..
Just when I think everyone is done I get a few more bracket requests.
(Oh and before giving me too much credit.. another member used the caliper first, I just refined and developed it & added in the rotor swap
)
A bracket to fit the 274mm disk is not really workable due to the clearances (it becomes a four bolt bracket instead of a 3).
The later ninja caliper does not feel as good as the earlier one and the mounts are not the same so the bracket needs to be different, the clearances are much tighter but it is now in more plentiful supply so I may switch over at some point in the future is there is still demand. I have played with them a bit & have a couple of sets on my shelf. The V-strom & SV guys go up to GSXR calipers (their forks are wide enough) whilst the KLR guys and plenty of others go up to the Ninja ones..
Just when I think everyone is done I get a few more bracket requests.
(Oh and before giving me too much credit.. another member used the caliper first, I just refined and developed it & added in the rotor swap
)
Has anyone used this Chinese "Arashi" brand of aftermarket rotors? They come in nice fancy aftermarket packaging made to give the impression that they are high quality. Notice that they completely cloned the Arai helmets logo for their "Arashi" branding?!? Trying to gain some sort of familiarity recognition through a bit of trickery...
Has anyone ridden any of these new aftermarket replacement Chinese brand rotors extremely hard, and have you had good or bad experiences with them? One friend said he put some Chinese replacement rotors on his Kawasaki ZRX1200 and warped them significantly within 2 weeks. My wife is cringing at the fact that I want to seek out another set of $150 used OEM rotors from a 1990's Honda in lieu of buying a new set of EBC's at $185 each x2... I finally warped my 93 Honda CBR900RR rotors and have been just not using the front brakes much in the past year (was out due to knee surgery 1st half of this season), using the rear til the tire squeals/fishtails, and replying on engine braking heavily... can't ride like a 30 year old racerboy anymore without relying heavily on hard front braking, maybe it's a good thing at age 41 and coming out of a serious knee surgery!
Note - the standard ones that work with Salty's twinpot brackets and spacers and do not need the entire pattern redrilled, just need the existing holes enlarged, only come in the wave pattern, Arashi # DBS008W, these pictured are 23mm offset like stock GS rotors, the do not work with Salty's spacer behind them but will work with Salty's bracket, they come in the round smooth circular outer surface.
Has anyone ridden any of these new aftermarket replacement Chinese brand rotors extremely hard, and have you had good or bad experiences with them? One friend said he put some Chinese replacement rotors on his Kawasaki ZRX1200 and warped them significantly within 2 weeks. My wife is cringing at the fact that I want to seek out another set of $150 used OEM rotors from a 1990's Honda in lieu of buying a new set of EBC's at $185 each x2... I finally warped my 93 Honda CBR900RR rotors and have been just not using the front brakes much in the past year (was out due to knee surgery 1st half of this season), using the rear til the tire squeals/fishtails, and replying on engine braking heavily... can't ride like a 30 year old racerboy anymore without relying heavily on hard front braking, maybe it's a good thing at age 41 and coming out of a serious knee surgery!
Note - the standard ones that work with Salty's twinpot brackets and spacers and do not need the entire pattern redrilled, just need the existing holes enlarged, only come in the wave pattern, Arashi # DBS008W, these pictured are 23mm offset like stock GS rotors, the do not work with Salty's spacer behind them but will work with Salty's bracket, they come in the round smooth circular outer surface.
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G
Guest
Guest
Aside from being round those look a lot like the ones I posted a pic of in post #630 of this thread. I can't say mine have been used extremely hard (assertive street riding, but no track time), but the first set of CBR600 rotors I had warped in no time while the Chinese ones are still going strong a few thousand miles later under the same operating conditions. If warping is a problem maybe go to a set of the petal style rotors, they are less susceptible to warping due to the irregular OD shape.
Mark
https://www.600rr.net/vb/69-07-13-rr-modifications/291047-ebay-wave-rotors-review-5.html#post5663329
"I have the Arashi rotors on a 2003 CBR600RR for about 18 months now with close to 20k miles and have not had any problems what so ever. I ride track as well... they are the generic Chinese brand and have held up well."
EDIT - I just ordered a set. Crossing my fingers that they arrive sooner than the 7-14 days from now quoted! West Virginia mountain roads are calling...
"I have the Arashi rotors on a 2003 CBR600RR for about 18 months now with close to 20k miles and have not had any problems what so ever. I ride track as well... they are the generic Chinese brand and have held up well."
EDIT - I just ordered a set. Crossing my fingers that they arrive sooner than the 7-14 days from now quoted! West Virginia mountain roads are calling...
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Been asked for this a bunch of times.
My step by step would be:
1. Bolt rotor spacers to CBR rotors using 2x6mm bolts & nuts. Make sure central.
2. Drill the Suzuki bolt pattern using an 8mm or eq drill in a drill press.
3. Mount rotors on the wheel (spacer between the rotor & the hub) using original 6 x M10 Suzuki bolts each side. (check direction - rotors have arrows on them)
4. Mount the caliper bracket to the fork using the bottom bolt nearest the leg only (you need to find a nut & bolt for this, 10mm x 45mm if you put lock washer on outside of bracket, 10 x 40mm may be ok without the washer (for steel brackets only). Fine thread is best for "anti shake loose" if you can find it, use loctite too).
5. Cut 4mm off of the top of the speedo drive dust cover (looks like a "top hat" in profile, cut the top off of the hat). (Some older models don't need this as the cover is already short enough - usually bike with the riveted rotors as stock).
6. Mount the wheel back in the forks, tighten axle etc.
7. Mount the caliper to the top bolt
8. slide in the spacer for the bottom bolt & put that bolt in (Should be able to use stock bolts here - Steel brackets only)
9. Make sure all lines up & tighten to stock torque figures (use loctite).
10. Check clearances. The rotor rivets are usually closest point to the lower bolt. You should have 3mm plus each side & should be the same.
11. Bleed brakes
12. Check clearances & brake function (bike on jack so you can spin it).
13. Walk bike & check again
14. Ride it - take it easy till you're happy that everything is tight, clearances are good. Remember brakes need to bed in etc.
My step by step would be:
1. Bolt rotor spacers to CBR rotors using 2x6mm bolts & nuts. Make sure central.
2. Drill the Suzuki bolt pattern using an 8mm or eq drill in a drill press.
3. Mount rotors on the wheel (spacer between the rotor & the hub) using original 6 x M10 Suzuki bolts each side. (check direction - rotors have arrows on them)
4. Mount the caliper bracket to the fork using the bottom bolt nearest the leg only (you need to find a nut & bolt for this, 10mm x 45mm if you put lock washer on outside of bracket, 10 x 40mm may be ok without the washer (for steel brackets only). Fine thread is best for "anti shake loose" if you can find it, use loctite too).
5. Cut 4mm off of the top of the speedo drive dust cover (looks like a "top hat" in profile, cut the top off of the hat). (Some older models don't need this as the cover is already short enough - usually bike with the riveted rotors as stock).
6. Mount the wheel back in the forks, tighten axle etc.
7. Mount the caliper to the top bolt
8. slide in the spacer for the bottom bolt & put that bolt in (Should be able to use stock bolts here - Steel brackets only)
9. Make sure all lines up & tighten to stock torque figures (use loctite).
10. Check clearances. The rotor rivets are usually closest point to the lower bolt. You should have 3mm plus each side & should be the same.
11. Bleed brakes
12. Check clearances & brake function (bike on jack so you can spin it).
13. Walk bike & check again
14. Ride it - take it easy till you're happy that everything is tight, clearances are good. Remember brakes need to bed in etc.
G
Greg5000
Guest
this is great thread, glad I found it. I have question if you would be kind enough to help. I have a 1980 GSX 750 L GS 750, 16 valve , with the dual front brakes, and was wondering if I could keep the stock rotors and install new calipers on them using the existing brackets. I see some deals on ebay to get the concors calipers with master cylinder for about $100 which seems good.
thanks
Also I see on ebay there are new chinese calipers that claim to fit my bike, just wondering if anyone has tried them.
thanks
Also I see on ebay there are new chinese calipers that claim to fit my bike, just wondering if anyone has tried them.
Not heard of or seen anyone using a Chinese caliper. I would be quite wary of that for a few reasons, fit, safety etc.
The Stock rotors are too small to allow you to fit the caliper properly, you need to change to either the single brake rotors or the CBR Rotors which are both bigger. Do you have the axle underneath or axle in front forks?
H
hepgeek
Guest
Sent a PM. Hopefully you’ve still got a set of these available. Spring is springing and I’ve got bike projects on the brain.
Yep one back at ya. I'm low on stock of these now & will need to make a decision whether to get more in... (it's a decent size investment in the quantity I have to order to get reasonable prices).
H
hepgeek
Guest
Score! Just bought a pair of 03 Concourse calipers on eBay, complete with lines and master cylinder for $43 delivered to Alaska.
Nice! You'll need to change out those lines but the rest of it should just bolt up! Is it the Master cylinder with the square top, mirror mount & adjustable lever? That's the one I use
Trying to get a feel for demand as I have to order some more sets... It's a big outlay (more than buying a new GS) so ideally I'd like a few taken off my hands quite quickly.
This time I have made an adjustment that gives a 2nd caliper choice option.
This time I have made an adjustment that gives a 2nd caliper choice option.
F
fella
Guest
Flicked you a pm.
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