Using GS1150 bars on GSXR triple tree

[Colin Green]

Hello all,

I am in full procrastination mode regarding my 1150 front end upgrade to 86 GSXR 1100 front forks and wheel.

I have the 86 GSXR 1100 triple tree as well as the forks, calipers and wheel (without rotors) and see that I have to weld steering lock stops to the new GSXR triple tree as well as fit bar risers (there ain't no way I'm running with clip ons).

I have looked at the possibility of using the original 1150 bars on the GSXR triple clamp and figure I can use them if I cut some 16 - 18mm off cuts from the original 37mm forks and get someone to weld them onto the top caps of the 41mm GSXR forks. I should still be able to use a screw driver to adjust preload and if properly centralised there would be 1mm clearance all round between the outside wall of a 22mm socket and the 37mm fork cap extensions, allowing the removal of the caps (complete with welded on 37mm fork extensions).

If I get the length right and set it 4 or 5mm below the top of the base of the handle bar base plates (which otherwise only need a screw hole tapped in to the GSXR top triple clamp, same as the 1150 top triple clamp) the 1150 rubber caps could then be set into the bar base plates to finish them off visually and would hopefully stay there while riding without being too hard to extract when needed.

I am thinking that it wouldn't be any harder to do the above, than to install contemporary bar risers and would look more like the original front set up.

Ideally I should look out for some bars from the 1150 E (anyone??) as I understand they are higher than the EF bars and I would like them a bit higher to tie in with seat and peg height and position changes that I propose to make.

What do you guys think. Is that an ok idea or are there some limitations or better ideas that you can think of?

 

[posplayr]

Hello all,

I am in full procrastination mode regarding my 1150 front end upgrade to 86 GSXR 1100 front forks and wheel.

I have the 86 GSXR 1100 triple tree as well as the forks, calipers and wheel (without rotors) and see that I have to weld steering lock stops to the new GSXR triple tree as well as fit bar risers (there ain't no way I'm running with clip ons).

I have looked at the possibility of using the original 1150 bars on the GSXR triple clamp and figure I can use them if I cut some 16 - 18mm off cuts from the original 37mm forks and get someone to weld them onto the top caps of the 41mm GSXR forks. I should still be able to use a screw driver to adjust preload and if properly centralised there would be 1mm clearance all round between the outside wall of a 22mm socket and the 37mm fork cap extensions, allowing the removal of the caps (complete with welded on 37mm fork extensions).

If I get the length right and set it 4 or 5mm below the top of the base of the handle bar base plates (which otherwise only need a screw hole tapped in to the GSXR top triple clamp, same as the 1150 top triple clamp) the 1150 rubber caps could then be set into the bar base plates to finish them off visually and would hopefully stay there while riding without being too hard to extract when needed.

I am thinking that it wouldn't be any harder to do the above, than to install contemporary bar risers and would look more like the original front set up.

Ideally I should look out for some bars from the 1150 E (anyone??) as I understand they are higher than the EF bars and I would like them a bit higher to tie in with seat and peg height and position changes that I propose to make.

What do you guys think. Is that an ok idea or are there some limitations or better ideas that you can think of?

Colin most people bolt handle bar risers to the top triple clamp. Mine I would have to remove the bars to adjust preload but once set I never needed to do it again.

have you looked here if you want to stick with clip on's?

http://www.fastfromthepast.com/servlet/the-Clip-dsh-ons/Categories

You did not mention it Colin, but your real problem with any clip on is having to mount it under the triple clamp. If you dont you will lose 1" of fork length. I'm pretty sure the 1150 clipon's are above the triple but those are much longer forks. So really if you want to retain a clip-on that is above the triple it needs to be welded to the triple or the other possibility is to get a fork tube extension to screw in to the top of the extension and the preload adjust fits into the top extension. The idea of welding to the top adjuster would worry me as how are you going to get the the handlebars adjusted?
You might be able to make a 37mm extension that is wide enough to fit inside of the 41mm stanchion but also fits a smaller preload adjuster like one off of a 35-37 mm bike. See attached pic, I think this is the way to go and you use the stock clip on's mounted above the triple as well as being bolted to stop rotation of the extension

 

[Colin Green]

Thanks Jim. I don't have the cash to spend on clip ons. Not with having to fork out the value of the bike a third time just to get a set of rotors and sprocket carrier. I have to cut back where I can.

Your picture (worth a thousand words) isn't a lot different to what I was proposing.
See my modification of your picture below.

 

[posplayr]

Thanks Jim. I don't have the cash to spend on clip ons. Not with having to fork out the value of the bike a third time just to get a set of rotors and sprocket carrier. I have to cut back where I can.

Your picture (worth a thousand words) isn't a lot different to what I was proposing.
See my modification of your picture below.

Make sure you mark (center punch) the clipon's in the position you want them after tightening the top caps. Also make sure you can disassemble every with with a welded clip on? Also bolt the clip on to the top triple.

1st Gen stock F rotors usually go for about $50-$75

 

[Colin Green]

Make sure you mark (center punch) the clipon's in the position you want them after tightening the top caps. Also make sure you can disassemble every with with a welded clip on? Also bolt the clip on to the top triple.

1st Gen stock F rotors usually go for about $50-$75

The original top mounted 1150 clip on won't be welded on. They will be mounted and removable the same way as they are on the 1150. the only welding will be the small 37mm section of old fork welded onto the top of the GSXR fork cap and it will come on and off with the cap nut (to which it is welded)

$50 to $75????? Where pray tell do you source them at that price. The OEM rotors are about $430US each (for front rotors) and EBC prices are about 150 pounds each. I would indeed be a happy boy if I can buy them for less than $100 us each. Are "F" rotors the same as the 86 G model rotors?

 

[salty_monk]

You could also weld the 1150 bars direct to the top triple I would think....

Risers that you can bolt on to the triple can be picked up for about 10-20 on eBay and bars are about 20 the same....

You could also use my method which was to use the GSXr clipons and have 2 bars custom bent in 22mm steel tube so that they have a rise in them, works fine on mine. Think tubes are 2mm wall thickness

 

[salty_monk]

eBay for the brake discs....

 

[salty_monk]

 

[salty_monk]

 

[posplayr]

You could also weld the 1150 bars direct to the top triple I would think....

Risers that you can bolt on to the triple can be picked up for about 10-20 on eBay and bars are about 20 the same....

You could also use my method which was to use the GSXr clipons and have 2 bars custom bent in 22mm steel tube so that they have a rise in them, works fine on mine. Think tubes are 2mm wall thickness

Dan,
I think he wants to keep the stock clipons, for the original look and the amount of rise the stock clip on's provide.

here is a set for sale now, shows like 5-6" of rise...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/86-S...rcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43a35c6901

Welding to the top triple would probably be best, but the problem I see is how to weld and not interfere with the closure of the upper triple cinch clamp?

The cinch bolts (1150 clipon and GSXR top triple) seem to clamp from different directions so it is not clear if you can slice the 1150 clipon at the 6" o clock position which is where it would be required if the clipon was welded directly to the upper triple clamp.

If a partial weld was done, and the clipon was expanded a bit to fit the 41mm fork then the final issue remains how to extend the forks for the clipons without making a custom machined part.

I can tell you welding something up is going to require some careful welding and then likely detailed filing to make it fit, so in the end you would beed a CNC machined part from solid stock to make a fork extension work.

The other option is just give up on the loss of 18mm of fork length (push the triple down so the clipon can slip on top) and make it up somewhere else. (18" wheels, more rear end height, exhaust)
The next option would be to get some extended forks from Franks..........

Jim

 

[Colin Green]

Thanks Dan and Jim. Lots more food for thought.

I hadn't thought about welding the clip-ons to the triple. :-k

If I can get rotors cheap enough I guess that would free the purse strings a bit.

Jim, Can you expand on the availability of $50-75 rotors? If ebay, I have been looking for a few months now and have only seen a single front rotor http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320425939543&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT for $39.

I am guessing that the cost of longer fork stancions would be prohibitive (for me) but would like to know more. Who is this 'Frank' you mentioned.


Just to be clear. My idea of welding a section of 37mm fork to the top of the GSXR fork cap is a no go because.......?... of the difficulty of welding the two materials clean enough? Not having any welding experience it seemed to me that it would be easy.

That set of bars and controls on ebay looks perfect. They are definitely higher than mine. While not a bad price I need to save my money for the more essential must haves (like rotors, sprocket carriers and all the new bearings needed etc)... though they look perfect and I may kick myself if I let them go..... Ummmmm

 

[posplayr]

Thanks Dan and Jim. Lots more food for thought.

I hadn't thought about welding the clip-ons to the triple. :-k

If I can get rotors cheap enough I guess that would free the purse strings a bit.

Jim, Can you expand on the availability of $50-75 rotors? If ebay, I have been looking for a few months now and have only seen a single front rotor http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320425939543&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT for $39.

I am guessing that the cost of longer fork stancions would be prohibitive (for me) but would like to know more. Who is this 'Frank' you mentioned.


Just to be clear. My idea of welding a section of 37mm fork to the top of the GSXR fork cap is a no go because.......?... of the difficulty of welding the two materials clean enough? Not having any welding experience it seemed to me that it would be easy.

That set of bars and controls on ebay looks perfect. They are definitely higher than mine. While not a bad price I need to save my money for the more essential must haves (like rotors, sprocket carriers and all the new bearings needed etc)... though they look perfect and I may kick myself if I let them go..... Ummmmm

Colin,
I looked at some parts I had here, namely a GSXR 41mm top preload adjuster and a GS1100 37mm triple top to mimic your 1150 clip on.

If your welder is skilled he might be able to get deep enough penetration between the 1150 clip on and the adjusted as shown in the picture below. I would only do this with a bolt through the triple clamp to keep the clip on from rotating. You could then just stick one of the rubber tops into the 37mm hole and it would look nearly stock.

I got an 88 GSXR 1100 front 18" wheel with rotors for about $100 shipped. If you ask at Gixxer.com something should show up. I paid about $366 for those Galfer wave rotors that I'm hoping are not bent, other wise I might have been tempted to sell the stock set.

As far as welding the section of stanchion to the adjuster, I was not sure how you planned on doing that either

If you do through the route described in the picture, make sure you mount the forks and tighten the adjusted to where you want. Then mark adjuster so you can align it with the clip on for welding. So type of a jig would likely be very useful

Remember you will have to assemble the top triple, then screw in this clipon/adjuster over the top; make sure you will have clearance when the gauges or other things are potentially in the way.

Jim

 

[posplayr]

$50 to $75????? Where pray tell do you source them at that price. The OEM rotors are about $430US each (for front rotors) and EBC prices are about 150 pounds each. I would indeed be a happy boy if I can buy them for less than $100 us each. Are "F" rotors the same as the 86 G model rotors?

That is the price per No? And yes if you buy new it is hard to get away for less than $400 for a set but I did with the Galfer wave rotors ($366 delivered with CA sales tax).

Keep looking

these are a little cheaper

http://www.mawonline.com/newsite/ebc-prolite_brake_rotors.htm

EBC Rotor Left #MD3004LS $187.23 Suzuki Mfg. #: MD3004LS Our #: M 58932 Vendor #: MD3004LS FITS MODEL: GSX-R1100 86-88 - Front Left Rotor

EBC Rotor Right #MD3004RS $187.23 Suzuki Mfg. #: MD3004RS Our #: M 32696 Vendor #: MD3004RS FITS MODEL: GSX-R1100 86-88 - Front Right Rotor

I dont know why they were on such a sale, but I got two of these for only $366 delivered. Give them a call and see when they might have a similar sale. I just called and they are closed till Monday. They are just up the road from me.

http://www.cyclebrakes.net/galferwaverotorstreet1frontfloatingwithblackcenter.aspx


also this is so cheap that it is worth picking up, you may come upon another sooner or later and they are better than stock even though they do rust. They will fit an 86-88 GSXR 1100

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GSXR...2188100QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

 

[Colin Green]

Thank you for all the time you are putting into educating me Jim.

I have asked again on gixer.com. Will wait and see what comes up this time.

I see what you mean now. It is different to what I proposed and would obviously require the removal of all of the controls from the clip-ons in order to be able to screw the assemblies onto and off the ends of the GSXR forks each time an oil change was required. Not quite what I was after.

I have had another go at doing some drawings of what it was that I was proposing. Hopefully it will make it clearer.

The first pic shows just the GSXR fork and cap on the left and on the right side it is shown again but with the section of 37mm fork tube welded onto the GSXR cap nut.

The next pic shows the fork (with the extension welded on) set into the GSXR top triple on the left side of the pic, while on the right side it shows the 1150 clip-on sat down over the top of the extended fork cap and screwed onto the triple (fixed the same as on the 1150 triple).

Hopefully that makes it easier to understand how I envisaged doing it.

I am hoping that a good welder can do the weld ok. Will also need to butcher the 1150 top triple to cut off the instrument mounts so they can be welded onto the GSXR top triple (same as you did on yours)

 

[Colin Green]

That is the price per No? And yes if you buy new it is hard to get away for less than $400 for a set but I did with the Galfer wave rotors ($366 delivered with CA sales tax).

Keep looking

these are a little cheaper

http://www.mawonline.com/newsite/ebc-prolite_brake_rotors.htm




I dont know why they were on such a sale, but I got two of these for only $366 delivered. Give them a call and see when they might have a similar sale. I just called and they are closed till Monday. They are just up the road from me.

http://www.cyclebrakes.net/galferwaverotorstreet1frontfloatingwithblackcenter.aspx


also this is so cheap that it is worth picking up, you may come upon another sooner or later and they are better than stock even though they do rust. They will fit an 86-88 GSXR 1100

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GSXR...2188100QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

Thanks again. Yes they are a bit cheaper. I like the wave rotors and will contact them to see when/if they will discount them again.

Maybe I should grab both of the single front discs on ebay (don't know why the one you found didn't show up on my searches???.

They appear to be for the same side and are very different to each other.

 

[posplayr]

Thank you for all the time you are putting into educating me Jim.

I have asked again on gixer.com. Will wait and see what comes up this time.

I see what you mean now. It is different to what I proposed and would obviously require the removal of all of the controls from the clip-ons in order to be able to screw the assemblies onto and off the ends of the GSXR forks each time an oil change was required. Not quite what I was after.

I have had another go at doing some drawings of what it was that I was proposing. Hopefully it will make it clearer.

The first pic shows just the GSXR fork and cap on the left and on the right side it is shown again but with the section of 37mm fork tube welded onto the GSXR cap nut.

The next pic shows the fork (with the extension welded on) set into the GSXR top triple on the left side of the pic, while on the right side it shows the 1150 clip-on sat down over the top of the extended fork cap and screwed onto the triple (fixed the same as on the 1150 triple).

Hopefully that makes it easier to understand how I envisaged doing it.

I am hoping that a good welder can do the weld ok. Will also need to butcher the 1150 top triple to cut off the instrument mounts so they can be welded onto the GSXR top triple (same as you did on yours)

Colin,
Here is a standard 1.5" x 0.25" thick piece of Aluminum tubing. That means that the ID is 1.5-0.25x2 = 1.0" and I measure the nut on the adjuster at 0.96" maximum diagonal distance. So if you could pick up a short section of this have it welded then the
1.5" OD is 38.4mm so the clip on should slip over with only a little persuasion.

Extruded Aluminum Bare Tube 6061 T6

and you have it welded the clip on should fit nicely. a 1/4" thick peice of aluminum will be very strong.

http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=4362&step=4&showunits=inches&id=71&top_cat=0

This is basically a cheap 38mm fork extension to a 41mm fork.

A couple comments about your drawing

As you mentioned you cant use a peice of 37mm steel fork to weld to the aluminum adjuster.

You are welding aluminum to aluminum so you need a much larger "fillet" weld. If you try to weld on the outside, you will disturb the outer edge and the threads.

With a 0.25" thick tube coming over the top of the adjuster nut, you can fill the entire inside of the adjuster with weld very easily making it very strong and still not affect the center adjuster screw.

The net result will still look just like your final picture, just welded on the inside.

You will want to leave enough of the nut showing so you can still put a socket in there otherwise getting the adjuster down against the spring will be tough unless you make a some special tool



Jim

P.S. I just checked about using a 41mm clip on; it doesnt work as well you can only get a 1 5/8" tubing that is 0.125" thick; not nearly as strong

 

[posplayr]

Thanks Dan and Jim. Lots more food for thought.

I hadn't thought about welding the clip-ons to the triple. :-k

If I can get rotors cheap enough I guess that would free the purse strings a bit.

Jim, Can you expand on the availability of $50-75 rotors? If ebay, I have been looking for a few months now and have only seen a single front rotor http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320425939543&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT for $39.

I am guessing that the cost of longer fork stancions would be prohibitive (for me) but would like to know more. Who is this 'Frank' you mentioned.


Just to be clear. My idea of welding a section of 37mm fork to the top of the GSXR fork cap is a no go because.......?... of the difficulty of welding the two materials clean enough? Not having any welding experience it seemed to me that it would be easy.

That set of bars and controls on ebay looks perfect. They are definitely higher than mine. While not a bad price I need to save my money for the more essential must haves (like rotors, sprocket carriers and all the new bearings needed etc)... though they look perfect and I may kick myself if I let them go..... Ummmmm

http://www.frankmain.qpg.com/

 

[posplayr]

Thanks again. Yes they are a bit cheaper. I like the wave rotors and will contact them to see when/if they will discount them again.

Maybe I should grab both of the single front discs on ebay (don't know why the one you found didn't show up on my searches???.

They appear to be for the same side and are very different to each other.

The one on the right is an EBC floating rotor 86-88 GSXR1100 MD3004 (they come left and right). The buttons come off and the rotor can be sanded with an orbital to clean off that rust. These have very good braking but will rust if you let them get wet or sit in the weather.

The left one is stock, I would not mix and match but for the cost it is worth buying both that way, when another comes up you will get what you need plus be working on a set of spares.

I would check the thickness of the stock one; they are often worn. Minimum is 4.0mm

 

[Colin Green]

Colin,
Here is a standard 1.5" x 0.25" thick piece of Aluminum tubing. That means that the ID is 1.5-0.25x2 = 1.0" and I measure the nut on the adjuster at 0.96" maximum diagonal distance. So if you could pick up a short section of this have it welded then the
1.5" OD is 38.4mm so the clip on should slip over with only a little persuasion.

Extruded Aluminum Bare Tube 6061 T6

and you have it welded the clip on should fit nicely. a 1/4" thick peice of aluminum will be very strong.

http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=4362&step=4&showunits=inches&id=71&top_cat=0

This is basically a cheap 38mm fork extension to a 41mm fork.

A couple comments about your drawing

As you mentioned you cant use a peice of 37mm steel fork to weld to the aluminum adjuster.

You are welding aluminum to aluminum so you need a much larger "fillet" weld. If you try to weld on the outside, you will disturb the outer edge and the threads.

With a 0.25" thick tube coming over the top of the adjuster nut, you can fill the entire inside of the adjuster with weld very easily making it very strong and still not affect the center adjuster screw.

The net result will still look just like your final picture, just welded on the inside.

You will want to leave enough of the nut showing so you can still put a socket in there otherwise getting the adjuster down against the spring will be tough unless you make a some special tool



Jim

P.S. I just checked about using a 41mm clip on; it doesnt work as well you can only get a 1 5/8" tubing that is 0.125" thick; not nearly as strong

Thanks again Jim, you really are a top bloke helping out like this.

My 21mm (one mm too small) socket is 27.65mm OD so I figure a 22mm socket will be 29mm. I can get 37mm Ali tube with 3mm or 5mm wall thickness. (4mm would be too tight for the socket allowing .5mm tolerance for misalignment) so the 37mm 0.125" may have to do (it's only going to be about 20mm (3/4") high so shouldn't be taking too much cantilever loading (tension on one side) and as you say the weld depth could be made fairly healthy (as much as 5mm) effectively reducing the cantilever to 15mm.

I can also get 38.1mm OD with 4.8mm wall (= 28.5mm ID). If I filed the faces of the nut back about .5mm I could then use my 21mm (27.7mmOD) socket. I would also need to take a rats tail file to the riser bases (checked them at 36.8mm).

If you really think 3mm wall is too thin (try bending a dime) I will go with the 38.1mm 4.8mm wall, but would much prefer to run the easier path with the 37mm tube.

http://www.ullrich-aluminium.co.nz/extruded_round_tube2.php

 

[Colin Green]

The one on the right is an EBC floating rotor 86-88 GSXR1100 MD3004 (they come left and right). The buttons come off and the rotor can be sanded with an orbital to clean off that rust. These have very good braking but will rust if you let them get wet or sit in the weather.

The left one is stock, I would not mix and match but for the cost it is worth buying both that way, when another comes up you will get what you need plus be working on a set of spares.

I would check the thickness of the stock one; they are often worn. Minimum is 4.0mm

Cheers.

The fact that he hasn't responded to shipping and thickness inquiries is one of the reasons I hadn't already taken it. I have had another go an hour ago so fingers crossed.

http://www.frankmain.qpg.com/

Awesome link. I will send them an email and hope that the pricing isn't too bad.