Gel Battery

[RustyTank]

After spending the better part of an hour doing, what I thought was a, fairly thorough search for information on batteries for our old GS's I've come to the conclusion that this topic, like many others, has been discussed at nauseum. That said, I wasn't fully satisfied with the information I found so I'm making another battery post. Participate at your own risk.

I've recently replaced my stock shunt R/R with the Shindengen 775 series R/R

I'm having a custom seat fabricated for my 79 GS850G. I'd like to fit the battery under the cowl. The fabricator I'm working with suggested a lithium battery. After doing my research it's my understanding our old bikes charging system just doesn't work well with the lithium battery and it's an ill advised path to go down. I also read that AGM sealed batteries are highly recommended. In regards to AGM batteries I'm wondering if anyone can point me in the direction of a small 12v AGM that might fit under a seat cowl. Last but not least, I came across this gel battery that's quite small, through Summit Racing, that just might fit the application. I'm curious what the consensus is in regards to the gel batteries. Again, I do fully understand that the AGM's are recommended, just couldn't find a whole lot about the gel batteries in my search.

 

[fastbysuzuki]

A motobatt AGM that is recommended for a Gs850g has the specs 12 Volt 16.5 AH CCA 190.
The one your looking at has 4AH and CCA 50 looks to be very under powered
As far as I know the lithium ion battery requires a rectifier designed especially for that type of battery.

CCA = cold cranking amps. AH = Amp Hour

 

[Steve]

I agree with fast. As I was reading the first post, I was thinking that batteries are often mis-labeled. Some people think that just about any battery that is sealed is a "gel" battery, but the one in the link is labeled "TruGel" by the manufacturer, so it appears that it might, indeed, be a gel-type battery.

That being said, a gel battery is not all that good for the amp load required by the starter. The only way that I would consider installing that battery would be if you used your kick starter EVERY TIME. You could probably get away with using an AGM battery with a slightly smaller capacity than stock for your 850. I believe the stock battery is about 16 AH and 200 CCA. One for a 450 might be 12 or 14 AH and about 150-160 CCA. It will be just a bit smaller on each side, maybe just enough to fit it where you want. Most AGM batteries can be mounted in any position. Some have a limitation that they can't be mounted upside down, but all of them can go on their side.

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[LAB3]

I've HEARD but have have no actual experience that the guys building choppers out of Yamaha 650's often use a 12v 1ah battery so they can hide it out of the way and it works for them. I'd be leery of doing that on a "daily driver" bike but if it's strictly a custom bar hopper it should work.

 

[bwringer]

If you need to use it to start the bike (and really, the kick starter on a '79 GS850G is... rather vestigial. Not all that efficient.), and you can make sure the bike and the charging system is ALWAYS in tip-top tune, then yeah, you could install a somewhat smaller 12V AGM battery.

I can highly recommend MotoBatt brand; they really do seem to outperform other AGM batteries, and the extra terminals also give you a lot of added mounting flexibility.

This page lists all 39 MotoBatt models:
http://www.motobatt.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=59
Leaving aside a couple of 6 volt models, you might then ponder what sort of capacity rating you're comfortable with, then look for the dimensions and form factor that could work for your application.

MotoBatt covers multiple applications with fewer part numbers by including various spacers, and the four terminal setup covers more variations.

Stock is 200CCA and 14 amp-hour. I'm not sure what capacity I'd be comfortable with, but I don't think I'd go lower than half; so around 7-10 AH could work.

A GS in decent tune should start pretty much instantly with a hard glance at the starter button. But you're still giving up some portion of reliability (for example, if the charging system poops out, you won't get very far with a smaller battery) and so the final judgement call is up to you.


Another angle to explore might be whether to upgrade your charging system. You could get more charging capacity by installing a rotor and 18-pole stator from a later model. My GS850 is actually wearing a stator from a 2001 GS500 (the stock stator pooped out at 102,000 miles, and I figure it can't hurt to have a part that's 18 years newer). That said, if you're using LED lighting the added capacity might go to waste, and there's an argument to be made that the 12 pole stator stays cooler. But on the third hand, there aren't any replacement 12 pole stators available; you'd need to upgrade the stator and rotor or have your old one re-wound if and when it poops out.

Lots of factors to balance, and there might even be math... overall, I'd DEFINITELY install a good volt meter.

 

[RustyTank]

If you need to use it to start the bike (and really, the kick starter on a '79 GS850G is... rather vestigial. Not all that efficient.), and you can make sure the bike and the charging system is ALWAYS in tip-top tune, then yeah, you could install a somewhat smaller 12V AGM battery.

I can highly recommend MotoBatt brand; they really do seem to outperform other AGM batteries, and the extra terminals also give you a lot of added mounting flexibility.

This page lists all 39 MotoBatt models:
http://www.motobatt.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=59
Leaving aside a couple of 6 volt models, you might then ponder what sort of capacity rating you're comfortable with, then look for the dimensions and form factor that could work for your application.

MotoBatt covers multiple applications with fewer part numbers by including various spacers, and the four terminal setup covers more variations.

Stock is 200CCA and 14 amp-hour. I'm not sure what capacity I'd be comfortable with, but I don't think I'd go lower than half; so around 7-10 AH could work.

A GS in decent tune should start pretty much instantly with a hard glance at the starter button. But you're still giving up some portion of reliability (for example, if the charging system poops out, you won't get very far with a smaller battery) and so the final judgement call is up to you.


Another angle to explore might be whether to upgrade your charging system. You could get more charging capacity by installing a rotor and 18-pole stator from a later model. My GS850 is actually wearing a stator from a 2001 GS500 (the stock stator pooped out at 102,000 miles, and I figure it can't hurt to have a part that's 18 years newer). That said, if you're using LED lighting the added capacity might go to waste, and there's an argument to be made that the 12 pole stator stays cooler. But on the third hand, there aren't any replacement 12 pole stators available; you'd need to upgrade the stator and rotor or have your old one re-wound if and when it poops out.

Lots of factors to balance, and there might even be math... overall, I'd DEFINITELY install a good volt meter.

Thanks for everyone's input. It sure does help!

 

[RustyTank]

If you need to use it to start the bike (and really, the kick starter on a '79 GS850G is... rather vestigial. Not all that efficient.), and you can make sure the bike and the charging system is ALWAYS in tip-top tune, then yeah, you could install a somewhat smaller 12V AGM battery.

I can highly recommend MotoBatt brand; they really do seem to outperform other AGM batteries, and the extra terminals also give you a lot of added mounting flexibility.

Stock is 200CCA and 14 amp-hour. I'm not sure what capacity I'd be comfortable with, but I don't think I'd go lower than half; so around 7-10 AH could work.

So theoretically this 10 AH MotoBatt battery could work?

I’m looking into a volt meter, Looks pretty straightforward in regards to installation.

 

[hannibal]

When I first got my bike, I cheaped out on a 12Ah autozone lead acid battery. Worked well for 2 seasons. Once I got to fixing the charging system and I thought the battery was weak, I replaced with an autozone AGM 14Ah. The old one would probably still be fine now.

Don't drain it and a 10Ah would likely be fine.

 

[eil]

There's no reason a LiFePo4 battery couldn't work, if it had the appropriate buffering/charging/protection circuitry. The problem seems to be that no one makes one that comes with all of that _and_ lasts any longer than an AGM lead acid battery. And of course they are way more expensive.

 

[Rob S.]

I've never heard of a "gel" battery, and if I did I probably thought it was another term for an AGM. So what is a gel?

I'll be buying a new bat any week now and I've tracked down the elusive Yuasa AGM. Model is YTX14AHL-BS, and it's outside dimensions are precisely what my old wet battery is.

So any reason to (presumably) spend more for MotoBatt when bike is in heated garage, has no anti-theft system and seems to have a perfectly functioning charging system?

 

[RustyTank]

I've never heard of a "gel" battery, and if I did I probably thought it was another term for an AGM. So what is a gel?

I'll be buying a new bat any week now and I've tracked down the elusive Yuasa AGM. Model is YTX14AHL-BS, and it's outside dimensions are precisely what my old wet battery is.

So any reason to (presumably) spend more for MotoBatt when bike is in heated garage, has no anti-theft system and seems to have a perfectly functioning charging system?

Here’s a page that seems to explain the two batteries.
https://blog.batterysharks.com/the-difference-between-gel-and-agm-batteries/

 

[Rob S.]

"The GEL type is typically preferred for applications requiring frequent or daily use such as wheelchairs, scooters and other mobility applications..."

Well that seals it. When it's time for me to get a gel battery, I'm throwin' in the towel.

 

[LAB3]

"The GEL type is typically preferred for applications requiring frequent or daily use such as wheelchairs, scooters and other mobility applications..."

Well that seals it. When it's time for me to get a gel battery, I'm throwin' in the towel.

HD has electric bikes coming down the pike, shouldn't be too difficult to Fab a mount for that drive train to fit under a Hoveround.

 

[Rob S.]

HD has electric bikes coming down the pike, shouldn't be too difficult to Fab a mount for that drive train to fit under a Hoveround.

The HD Livewire - I was led to believe it was in the showroom. I'd like to hear it, see it, I'd even test ride it. But buy it? Not a hope in Hades.

 

[RustyTank]

I’ve gone ahead and ordered the MotoBatt 12v 10 AH battery. I’ll see how it does.

thanks everybody. The input really does help.

 

[RustyTank]

Update, for what it's worth
We decided not to put the battery in the seat cowl after all. Building a custom battery box in the middle section with a standard AGM battery with the stock requirements instead. I'm actually really happy we went this route. I think it's gonna turn out great and be better in the long run :wink:

 

[salty_monk]

Motobatt: http://www.motobattbatteries.com/motobatt-mbtx14au.html

This Li has been recommended by a user I trust on the KLR forum as being a good alternative. The KLR uses the same battery as the GS's and it's charging system (in fact the whole bike is no further advanced than an 82+ model) is no further advanced than a GS with a MOSFET RR fitted....

http://alienmotion.com/am8.html

Debating whether to try one on the KLR myself.

I have found these a good alternative to Motobatt - Get about 5 years+ the same out of them. http://www.etx15l.com/ They don't have the extra connects but are generally cheaper & at one stage were much easier to get hold of.

 

[wymple]

Any crappy little battery will suffice if you have and are planning to use a kick starter. You need very little amperage for that

 

[Rob S.]

I ordered a Yuasa maintenance-free, sealed battery today and was told it had a one year warranty on it. Is that less than standard?

 

[Steve]

One year warranty on a bike battery is on the better side. There are a few that come with two years, but most are 3 or 6 months.

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