GS 1000 engine in GSXR 1100 first gen frame?

[John Kat]

As I'm still waiting for my frame to get back from the welding shop, I spent some time figuring out the electric wiring of the bike.
Has anyone heard of Motogadget?
It's a german company that builds all sorts of electronic devices for bikes and one of these devices is an electronic control box that allows a very simple wiring of all the controls needed on a bike.
It's of course all solid-state and it's works with neat handlebar switches that can serve multiple functions.
I'm quite tempted to use their m-Unit allthough it's not cheap at 259 Euros here in France.
Any experience out there?
Here's their site: http://motogadget.com/en/electrics/...m-unit-digit-tastersteuerung-u-sicherung.html

 

[posplayr]

As I'm still waiting for my frame to get back from the welding shop, I spent some time figuring out the electric wiring of the bike.
Has anyone heard of Motogadget?
It's a german company that builds all sorts of electronic devices for bikes and one of these devices is an electronic control box that allows a very simple wiring of all the controls needed on a bike.
It's of course all solid-state and it's works with neat handlebar switches that can serve multiple functions.
I'm quite tempted to use their m-Unit allthough it's not cheap at 259 Euros here in France.
Any experience out there?
Here's their site: http://motogadget.com/en/electrics/...m-unit-digit-tastersteuerung-u-sicherung.html

It is expensive; I offer a cheaper alternative. Solid State Power Box and it is designed to fit in the same location as your existing fuse box which at about "4x2.3" the M-unit will not. See links in my signature.

They have improved the unit (V2) to a lower standby current 0.3 mA/ The SSPB is 2.0 mA for comparison the SH-775 is about 2.5mAmp as well. The Compufire is zero or thereabouts.

Reading the literature they have chosen to complicate the basic design by adding a lot of features that you can get from China for less than the cost of parts.

Tail light modulators are $5 an alarm is $11 on Ebay shipped from China.

My own thinking after contemplating the same was it is a lose lose proposition (more stuff in the box the more likely something will fail and nobody will buy it as it is too over the top). If he want absolute minimum weight for a street going bike and you want to get there by reducing wires then this is the way to go. Ultimately a fly by wire system CANBUS system will be smaller, but now you are really getting into the manufactures domain.

Much of my perspective was looking at this a product to develop. I even did a little market survey of an integrated system for light control that complimented the SSPB. Basically not much interest. I have never pursued MotoViz as there are too many cheap alternatives.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...o-get-more-out-of-your-SSPB&highlight=motoviz

 

[John Kat]

Jim, to be honest, I hadn't looked closely at your SSPB device.
My goal for this bike is to get rid of the OEM wiring loom, not to have flashing headlights and so on.
The neat part on the Motogadget box is that by simply temporarily earthing one of the inputs you can switch circuits on or off.
I believe your SSPB needs continuous input earthing to control a circuit?
They also have the possibility of commanding the turn signals in the same way.
They can apparently multiplex the control signals through only one wire by adding what they call the m-button?
http://motogadget.com/media/downloads/plan/fahrzeugschaltplan_mbutton_en.pdf
If I only wanted to upgrade one of my GS bikes, I would definitely go with your SSPB ( and I might still do so ) but for a bottom up build the m-Box seems the good choice ?

 

[John Kat]

I finally got my frame back from the welder.
At least he did a good job.
The bottom rear engine mounts were extended but I still have to drill the hole in the right place plus some finishing touches.
Here's what it looks like:

 

[Buffalo Bill]

I like your project, but I hope you move quickly on it.
Yoshi would knock a project like this off in 7 days, and nights!
I lose interest with 2-3 year projects, can't take those builders serious.

So I should confess, I'm considering a much easier swap of just a GSXR 1127 block into my GSX750F.
The engine seller keeps sending me teaser emails…mercy mercy mercy.

 

[John Kat]

I like your project, but I hope you move quickly on it.
Yoshi would knock a project like this off in 7 days, and nights!
I lose interest with 2-3 year projects, can't take those builders serious.

So I should confess, I'm considering a much easier swap of just a GSXR 1127 block into my GSX750F.
The engine seller keeps sending me teaser emails?mercy mercy mercy.

I can't agree more: it's long winded but I suppose life is a long wait between the parts you need for the project and the work you need to outsource...
When and if, I'll be done with this project, I'll put a GSXR 1127 block in my GS 1000 frame maybe like this one : http://www.custom-wolf.de/english/handmade-bikes/mocca-racer/
I'll follow your thread on your build and see how long it takes

 

[Guest]

I like your project, but I hope you move quickly on it.
Yoshi would knock a project like this off in 7 days, and nights!
I lose interest with 2-3 year projects, can't take those builders serious.

So I should confess, I'm considering a much easier swap of just a GSXR 1127 block into my GSX750F.
The engine seller keeps sending me teaser emails…mercy mercy mercy.

Are you aware that you could swap a 1052 crank (earlier gsxr1100) w/pstons and cylinder block, trans assy into your 750 cases? 1127 will fit too but you have to clearance the cases slightly for crank clearance. Stock 750 head works with either.

 

[Fjbj40]

Are you aware that you could swap a 1052 crank (earlier gsxr1100) w/pstons and cylinder block, trans assy into your 750 cases? 1127 will fit too but you have to clearance the cases slightly for crank clearance. Stock 750 head works with either.

Wow! This is good info! Anymore info on this?

 

[John Kat]

Good news: I got the bike on it's wheels today
It's basically GSXR 1100 86 87 with the fork from a GSXR 1100 89.
Still a lot of work to be done and money to be spent but it's a big step forward.
I also measured the weight of the frame alone: 17 kg.
Could anyone give me the weight of a bare GS 1000 frame?

And for those who think it's a bicycle

 

[Buffalo Bill]

Are you aware that you could swap a 1052 crank (earlier gsxr1100) w/pstons and cylinder block, trans assy into your 750 cases? 1127 will fit too but you have to clearance the cases slightly for crank clearance. Stock 750 head works with either.

Very interesting! I wondered if something like that could be done. It makes sense for Suzuki and all manufacturers to design a base modular engine that could be easily modified to other sizes for their different bikes.
I remember all the configurations that could be done with the Chevrolet small block V8

 

[John Kat]

A small but important step forward as I got the rear lower engine mounting tabs drilled.
I must have pulled the engine in and out at least ten times to get it right...
Next step will be to get the real engine in.
From there on, it will be more a question of money than anything else.
Note how close I got the rear of the engine to the swingarm.

 

[Fjbj40]

Looking REAL good! Awaiting the next progress report! You are doing a great job.

 

[postman_pat]

I also measured the weight of the frame alone: 17 kg.
Could anyone give me the weight of a bare GS 1000 frame?

I've measured a bare GS1000ST frame as 18.26kg.

A Cycle World test from the GS1000 launch quotes a frame weight of 38.3lbs (17.4kg), but remember, they have different gravity over in Japan!

Don't get too hung up about the frame weight - the GSX-R frame is much stiffer, and the real transformation will be in the wheels and other unsprung mass components.

 

[John Kat]

I've measured a bare GS1000ST frame as 18.26kg.

A Cycle World test from the GS1000 launch quotes a frame weight of 38.3lbs (17.4kg), but remember, they have different gravity over in Japan!

Don't get too hung up about the frame weight - the GSX-R frame is much stiffer, and the real transformation will be in the wheels and other unsprung mass components.

I was expecting a minimal weight saving.
In fact when I cut the frame into two I discovered that the weight was really concentrated around the swingarm area.
The current hypersport bikes have the swingarm attached directly to rear of the engine cases to decrease the weight much further.
When I started the project I considered using the GSXR 750 frame as a basis as it looks much more like the one used on the XR 41 but it looked so weak that I decided against it...
Apparently the XR 41 racers complained about the frame that would geat weak after a few races.
Thanks for the feedback on the GS 1000 frame weight.

 

[John Kat]

It was a great day yesterday when I slipped my 1085 engine in my modified GSXR 1100 frame
It was so tight that my helpers thought it wouldn't go in...
Today, I tightened all the bolts and hooked up my standard V&H exhaust on the bike.
A small issue appeared as the internal exhaust bolts of cylinders 1 and 4 can't go in as they interfere with the frame downtubes...
I'll have to try with a nut on a threaded shaft.
Mounting the exhaust showed also a minute interference at the silencer level: maybe one or two millimeters.
It's a racing bike let's not forget!
Last but not least, I managed to get the engine so low in the frame that it should be possible to mount some RS type carbs and not only the CV carbs.
Here are some pictures:

 

[posplayr]

You recall the GSXR head bolt spacing is narrower than the GS. Not a problem putting GSXR on GS , but the other way around, this is one of the issues.

The other thing to consider might be spigots. The bolt will be very close to the head and the spring retainers will save those threads. Also the spigots push the whole pipe a bit further forward and can add just the needed header clearance. On my ED, I still had clearance for between f fender and exhaust but it is close.
I found some V&H spigots on eBay (a few years back now) and had them machined to reduce the standoff. Here is a picture using hex head stainless bolts into teh head.

 

[John Kat]

You recall the GSXR head bolt spacing is narrower than the GS. Not a problem putting GSXR on GS , but the other way around, this is one of the issues.

The other thing to consider might be spigots. The bolt will be very close to the head and the spring retainers will save those threads. Also the spigots push the whole pipe a bit further forward and can add just the needed header clearance. On my ED, I still had clearance for between f fender and exhaust but it is close.
I found some V&H spigots on eBay (a few years back now) and had them machined to reduce the standoff. Here is a picture using hex head stainless bolts into teh head.

View attachment 41109

I've never seen a header with spigots but I believe I understand how it works with a small piece of tubing bolted to the cylinder head and the exhaust pipe that slides inside this piece of tube, both maintained together with a spring.
Would be nice but surely not easy to find?
I will try to wiggle the engine left and right to get the bolts in and then secure the engine in the frame.
Not the best engineering practice but I'm sure one can find worse in production cars...

 

[posplayr]

I've never seen a header with spigots but I believe I understand how it works with a small piece of tubing bolted to the cylinder head and the exhaust pipe that slides inside this piece of tube, both maintained together with a spring.
Would be nice but surely not easy to find?
I will try to wiggle the engine left and right to get the bolts in and then secure the engine in the frame.
Not the best engineering practice but I'm sure one can find worse in production cars...

For track racing that V&H megaphone is probably not the best for cornering clearance. Generally the pipes that come straight down the middle are better and so pulling the pipe is not an occasional affair especially for racing. You say you are going to studs, that will take a load off of the poor threads in the head at least. Still a pita to pull the exhaust.

As I recall the MotoWorks SS pipe has spigots and would be something fitting to your build instead of the megaphone.

Like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GS1000-STAI...-COOLEY-GSX-/111709239961?hash=item1a0263ba99

 

[dorkburger]

So cool to watch this come together.

 

[John Kat]

So cool to watch this come together.

Thanks, encouragements are always welcome specially when the outcome is not garanteed...
I believe Napol?on once said to one of his generals: " You must be smart and brave to have reached this rank but are you lucky?"
In all projects one needs a bit of luck as it's almost impossible to foresee all issues.
Here I was lucky as a stud can go into the cylinder head to fix the difficult to reach exhaust bolt issue.
Even better the spacing was exactly the same on the other side.
The engine is definitely well centered in the frame