My Countersteering Story

[IOWA450T]

The last time I was able to ride (seems like forever here in the frozen north) I put 200 miles on my 850 on a beautiful sunny afternoon. As I entered a series of curves with a posted speed limit of 45 mph I thought "45 for cars, 60 for me".
I navigated the first curve smoothly and, of course, was accellerating out of the turn and into the second one which was quicker. As I approached the apex of this turn I started to realize that something was dreadfully wrong; I was somehow unable to lean into the turn any further (centrifugal force?) and experienced a moment of panic as I approached the white line at the edge of the road.
I did a quick scan of what little I know about motorcycling (I still consider myself a newb after only one real riding season) and realized that even if I couldn't seem to lean to the left I could certainly push my left handlebar away from me so that's what I did. To my relief the bike started to lean and finally moved away from the white line and back into the center of my lane. I have been messing around with different techniques of countersteering when I'm out riding and there is no traffic ever since I read about it here. I'm sure glad I had because I knew I didn't have to lean my body to turn.

Between then and now I saw a video somewhere of a sport bike that seemed to be in a similar situation; the rider was trying to lean into the curve he was on but couldn't seem to. I could really relate to what must have been a helpless feeling as his bike left the road and hit a guard rail. If not for the insight I had gained by hanging out here and trying to learn all I can from this incredible repository of information my experience might have been similar but instead I am able to describe my experience without mentioning what repairs my bike (or body) required!

 

[Steve]

If you haven't yet gotten into an MSF riding course, do so at the first opportunity. :shock:

It does not matter what it costs in your state, it's an investment in your safety.

Basic rules of negotiating corners on a motorcycle:

You do NOT lean to initiate the turn.

PUSH on the LEFT bar to GO LEFT.

PUSH on the RIGHT bar to GO RIGHT.


One of the quickest ways to drill this home is to set up a cone weave or just use the ends of the lines in a parking lot. Go about 15 mph and do it with just one hand on the bars. Notice when you are pulling and when you are pushing with that hand. 8-[


.

 

[bwringer]

I second the advice to get into an MSF course pronto, no matter what it costs in your state. EVERYONE who rides MUST take this course ASAP. No exceptions. Even if you "used to ride".

The MSF course is a solid and mandatory grounding in the principles of motorcycle control and the art of survival while riding on the street. (In other words, being able to point the motorcycle where you want it to go, as well as knowing where to point it.)


I'd also like to thank you for the reminder of what it's like for newbies and re-entry riders. I hope others can benefit from your clear description of what you felt and perceived, how you corrected it, and what you learned from the experience. You can learn a lot from just one corner!

 

[spyug]

As the others mention....run, don't, walk to the next available MSF course.

You strike me as being young and or reckless or both. After one season of riding you have no business going faster than the posted limits especially in the turns and you are lucky you did not end up as a hood ornament on a semi. Hopefuly you have scared some sanity into yourself.

While waiting for spring and the next courses I would recommend you read every thing you can on m/c handling starting with this site. In addition, beg, borrow or steal Proficient Motorcycling" ( 2 book series) by David Hough, the absolute best books for newbies and old sweats alike. I read them over from cover to cover every winter.

Riding motorcycles safely is a challenge at the best of times and even experts get it wrong from time to time. Do yourself a favour and get some training and education before you go out and flog her again.

Be safe.
Spyug

 

[BentRod]

Beg borrow or steal eh Spyug? say.. where was your place again??

I have looked for these books.. where did you get yours or any idea where i can get copies?

Thanks!
Kevin

 

[Redman]

My opinion is that countersteering should be your primary means of steering.
Actaully, it is more than an opinion. (and I seldom make such definite statements.)

Glad that your story did not involve police or ambulances.
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[bwringer]

White Horse Press is a great source for moto-books and lots of other stuff besides:

Here's their riding skills section:
http://www.whitehorsepress.com/index.php?cPath=6

 

[twr1776]

I think I saw those at Barnes & Noble the other day if you have one close to you.

 

[bonanzadave]

I have been messing around with different techniques of countersteering

Every one has. Ever ride a bicycle ? Same thing. Messing around is a good thing. Some people call it practice. Practice braking too.

 

[Roostabunny]

I wouldn't know how to get out of the parking lot without counter steering, but then I took my MSF course before I even owned a bike. I'm a planner, I guess.

Counter steering is so key. Although I learned to ride that way from the start, I've tried it a number of ways (“messing around” I guess) and I'm amazed at the difference in effort. It's like flicking vs arm wrestling. As a result I try to cultivate the habit, even for gentle stuff like lane changes.

Something to try is cornering using "only" your inside hand with the lightest possible grip on the outside hand. It's an eye opener. When I tried it I realized that I was unconsciously fighting the turn with my outside hand by pulling/pushing on the bar. The inside-hand-only exercise just reminded me that I don’t need to “hold the bike up” in turns. It holds itself up. In fact, as you found out (without getting hurt, thankfully) – at speed the bike prefers to stand up and go straight!

After following me on my first ride in the "twisties" this past October my FJR1300-mounted buddy was really impressed that a 26-year-old bike could be so nimble because he'd seen me make some fast transitions in the switchbacks. I replied that I could “toss the bike around pretty good”, but later I realized that there was really very little effort involved in my quickest transitions because it was the counter steering (and therefore the physics of the bike at speed) that did all the work of transitioning my 550lb GS850 from one side of the tire to the other. I'm not bragging, mind you, I also made him nervous because due to inexperience and a dangerous (I admit it) desire to keep up with more experienced riders I kept forgetting to look through the second turn on those switchbacks and made some of my turns really late. 8-[ But once I decided to turn, counter steering made the turns quick and made up for my mistake of not looking where I wanted to go. And I learned my lesson, too, about both looking through the turn and more importantly "riding your own ride" after seeing a little too much detail of some pea gravel near what would have been a very unforgiving roadside cliff.


Anyway, practice is good, and I also echo the others who recommend an MSF course. I learned stuff I would never have figured out on my own. I’m sure it’s made riding more fun and will save my life at some point if it hasn’t already. I’m looking for a course for experienced riders – not sure they still offer them.

 

[bwringer]

I took the ERC (Experienced RiderCourse) a couple of years ago, and it was pretty much a waste of time, IMHO.

There were about 12-15 riders, and all except me on my GS850 and a guy on a Suzuki Savage were on Harleys (I'm including the guy on a new Buell in the Harley group.)

Guess which bikes were the only two that didn't break down that day? Hmmmmmmm??? :twisted:

Aside from that, the class was chock full of the usual "biker bro" crap. Anti-helmet ranting, boasting about brave feats of beer drinking, strutting around in squeaky leather costumes with no bug splats, and bragging about the money spent on chrome gewgaws. I believe there was a side event in beard growing, too.

I stuck it out and got the little ERC card, but I can't say it was a Saturday well-spent.

The ERC could be a nice refresher if you're one of those 300 mile a year tavern-to-tavern poker run riders. But you'll likely learn more from taking a nice long trip somewhere far away with lots of curves to practice on, real weather to cope with and ride through, and real traffic that's trying to kill you.

 

[bubba]

I agree take the course. Be sure to sign up early. Here they fill up fast. I am going on my 4th year of riding and still consider myself a beginner, but I have noticed a big improvement in abilities with time. And yes the books mentioned are worth their weight in gold. One big thing I learned from both is to look where you want to go. Turn your head as you go through a curve and look where you want to go, and that is where you will go. Works like magic. After a while it will become automatic and you won't even think about it. At the end of the day though, nothing replaces time in the saddle. \\/

 

[Smokinapankake]

I first knowingly experienced countersteering principles on my GPz 750 a few years ago. Although I'd ridden for a few years on my old Katana, I never had the principle explained as clearly as the Proficient Motorcycling books did. So as I was tooling along an empty, straight road, I push with the left hand (keeping a VERY light grip on the right) and was completeley amazed at how the bike tried to dive left. I was at the yello line in no time. That was the pivotal point in my motorcycle handling technique. I'm now safer and more in control that I was before.
Glad to hear you haven't wound up in the hospital, and that you learned from the adventure.

 

[Kcwiro]

Deja-vu

Deja-vu

Sounds simular to what happened to me when I was out riding my 750 on the freeway midday no one out. Easily noticed bike was not turning and corrected with the bars...have had this drilled into me by having a person decide they wanted to jump into the carpool lane without noticing I was occupying the space... had to use the shoulder on the left before the divider and some quick reaction to correct and get back in the lane before the right hander and becoming a stain on the wall...

I took a MSF course with my friend which got me hooked and wanting to get my own wheels (did that same summer) moral of the story...since i took my motorcycle course I had the fundementals drilled into my head that I react on instinct instead of having to think it out..I still have much to learn but it is those lessons that keep you alive... don't skimp on safety EVER

...now I have to brush up on my common sense of DC'ing my battery and securing my fuel valve since I managed to ruin the battery and also drained my gas tank... but that is my peril ... good luck with yours:-D

 

[dardoonk]

I wouldn't know how to get out of the parking lot without counter steering,

I was thinking the same thing. I was never taught the "lean into the corners" thing and counter-steering is what was taught to me. There is no comparison to how much more control you'll have, and if small corrections are made mid-turn, you are able to make them. Once you get this right, it will make handling that decreasing radius turn you didn't know about much easier to handle.

Something to try is cornering using "only" your inside hand with the lightest possible grip on the outside hand. It's an eye opener.

I actually concentrate on practicing this once in while to be sure no bad habits creep up on me. You only need your inside arm in a curve; of course, if for some reason you need to straighten the bike up very quickly I may start pushing with my outside arm.

A good book is Lee Parks: Total Control

 

[spyug]

I was taught to recite it...look right....push right....go right. I try to do it all the time and infact also recite observations and moves as I ride. This is a metholodgy taught to British m/c cops. It seems silly but it serves to keep you focused. You ride along and talk out everything you see and plan to do i.e "stop sign coming up in 500ft, gear down, gear down, front brake, check mirrors, stop, first gear, brake, look left, look ride, clear, go, shift up , shift up, check mirrors signal left, move left etc. etc.

They suggest you actualy vocalize it but after awhile you start to keep it in your head.

It works to keep you in the moment, give it a try.

Ride safe in 2008.

Chers all,
Spyug.

 

[Ludeykrus]

A very good point to make and remember.

I remember the first week I started riding, I got myself into a very hairy situation because I didn't know to countersteer. There was a medium-speed S-switchback where I took the first curve fine, but I could not get the bike to turn into the second curve....thank god the truck coming up saw what I was getting into and slowed down instead of turning me into a stain on the road!

 

[spyug]

I got into the same problem myself during the first season.Sharp 90 deg right turn to a steep downhill sweeper to a sharp 90 deg up hill with off and on cambers just to mix you up. Got to the bottom and turned only to drift into the oncoming downbound. Didn't have enough skill or knowledge to push over and get back into my lane. Luckily no one was coming down and i was able to wander back into my own lane with my heart ready to jump out of chest.

One thing I would also like to mention is that while learning to counter steer I don't recall them stressing to push harder to move further over, something that I learned through trial and error and something that saved me a time or two in the twisties.

In conjunction with countersteering, I think it would be very helpful if they taught new riders how to position for transitions through twists and turns. This was not mentioned in my course and I found it difficult to work out until I got the Proficient Motorcycle series and learned about delayed apexing and such. They might consider it an advanced skill but I nearly got creamed a time or two in the first season for not knowing where to position myself.

Just another thought or two.

Cheers all,
Spyug

 

[Greg O.]

I love the way the bike just leans into the turn with counter steering, then the way it stands right back up when pushing on the other hand grip. Never get tired of that feeling

Greg O

 

[Steve]

I took the ERC (Experienced RiderCourse) a couple of years ago, and it was pretty much a waste of time, IMHO.

The ERC could be a nice refresher if you're one of those 300 mile a year tavern-to-tavern poker run riders. But you'll likely learn more from taking a nice long trip somewhere far away with lots of curves to practice on, real weather to cope with and ride through, and real traffic that's trying to kill you.

Well,...I agree, sort of. I am not a "300 mile a year tavern-to-tavern poker run rider", but I tend to take the ERC every two years. Besides being a refresher, it is (in oHIo) a $25 expense that gives you a 10% discount on your insurance. We are insuring 3 riders on 4 bikes, so we are spending about $1200 per year, so that $25 expense drops about $120 off the bill. \\/

Yes, you can learn a LOT from the school of hard knocks, but it's nice to be prepared when you go out there.

Oh, you want proof that I'm not only doing 300 miles a year?

Bought my Wing in October, 2005, it had 90,950 miles on it. It's sitting in the garage right now with 125,540 on the odometer. That's 34,590 in 26 months. I slowed down a bit this year due to unemployment. 20,052 of those miles were in the first 13 months, but only 14,538 in the last 13 months.


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