Earl's Brake Line Thread

[Chuck78]

So... the package arrived from AN Plumbing yesterday! BUT... Much to my dismay, the line sold by the foot that we received was bare stainless braided sheathing, no clear protective outer wrap on the hose...
They showed line sold by the foot, and they showed line sold in 10 ft, 20ft etc lengths. The by-the-foot line was very slightly cheaper to get 10ft than it was to buy the 10ft pre-cut length. I wonder if that stuff was the line with the outer protective layer (protect the bike from getting hack-sawed through by the tough stainless braided wrap!), and the by-the-foot is just the cheaper economy stuff? There was no indication of either being one or the other on their website, and I must say that I'm a bit disappointed in this part at least. The fittings did not include the compression ferrules/rings aka "olives" either, so luckily I had ordered 5 of those separately.

I should note that the stuff I ordered 7 or 8 years ago, I got less than 10ft, and it has the outer clear protective wrap layer on it... I was expecting the same!

Any comments or feedback here? I may phone them here shortly.


It should also be noted that I ordered 2 different double banjo bolts, and was faced with the same problem I had years ago, there are different heights of banjo fittings! The Earl's -3 are 3/8" tall fittings, and the banjos are spaced for that. There are other, much nicer quality stainless banjo bolts which they sell, that are made for somewhere around 1/4" tall banjo fittings. These bolts are significantly nicer in quality, and have the bowled out heads of the bolts like KTM and so many other modern high performance bike manufacturers use in order to save weight. The flat top of the hex head bolts is not flat, it is bowled out in a concave fashion to remove material to save weight. AND they are stainless. I think I will look into this brand of fittings next time as well.
Goodridge stainless is the nicer stuff. .320" fitting height vs .425" - I believe that is including the two crush washers per fitting in the height.

Goodridge 0.320" tall:

Earl's 0.420" tall:

EDIT - I ordered the hose from the link on the same page as all of the fittings. It's as if they just threw in a quick misc. line section into the hose end fittings section, but did not include ALL LINE VARIETY OPTIONS there... DARNIT!!!!!!!
If you look separately in the section for Speed-Seal hose, you will find a link for the coated lines halfway down the page... DARNIT!!!!!!!
https://www.anplumbing.com/hose/ptfe-speed-seal-hose.html $4.26/ft vs $3.02/ft

 

[Chuck78]

Apparently THIS is where I went wrong... I ordered based on the description and picture, which shows the taller height double banjo bolt spacing... BUT I got one that was the shorter .320" height spacing!!!!! DARNIT AN Plumbing for not making that clear! I ordered 2 (the other being the nickel plated Earl's brand in the taller height as advertised), so I have the one that I immediately need at least... I just will have to buy some heat shrink tubing to protect the bike from this uncoated line, or else spend $25 and rush ship some coated line from Summit Racing (both major USA Speed Shop mailorders, Sumit, and Jeg's, are based out of Ohio where I live, fortunately!)

 

[Nessism]

Bummer that you ordered the wrong hose. The PVC coated stuff is nice.

The ferrule, or olive, is inside the fitting. Try removing the nut. It should be there.

Regarding the banjo bolts, AN Plumbing sells a LOT of different types. Gotta be careful to order the right stuff. You can always reuse the stocker that came on your bike originally. That's what I typically do.

 

[Chuck78]

I thought I was being careful with the banjo ordering, as the photo showed what appeared to be what I needed, and the description did not say any dimensions that conflicted with the photo dimensions! The older Suzuki etc extra-fine m10-1.0 thread pitch double banjo is the stainless double banjo from Goodridge pictured, which appears to be the correct stack/fitting height for 3/8" tall (~10mm) Earl's fittings.

The hose thing - make certain you don't order hose from the minimal selection they show on the fittings page, be sure to go to the full PTFE Speed Seal hose page to find the coated stuff...
Initially I had the opinion that their website had some glitches/crutical omissions, and could use some improvements, but now I have found out the hard way that there are more errors than meets the eye! If the hose listing had stated that it was uncoated, that would have threw a necessary big red flag immediately for me. Here I was looking back to see if they showed any smoked or black jacket options, & looked again to see they only have what appeared to be clear...clear air that is, as there was no sheathing on the hose product I was viewing that was hose listed in the fittings section!!!! DARNIT!!!!!

 

[Nessism]

If I were you I'd just order some more hose. Save that other stuff for future projects, maybe dirt bikes.
Oh, and for what it's worth, once you've built a set of these lines and learn the ins and outs you will realize that building with the cheaper non adjustable hose ends work just fine. As mentioned earlier in the thread, mark them and stop tightening about 1/2 turn from where the nut bottoms out. The ferrule will be fully seated long before this point so don't worry. After both hose ends are installed then clock the hose ends as needed to fit the bike by using that last 1/2 turn as needed.

Good luck

 

[Chuck78]

Thanks Ed.

So on the Z1 Enterprises website, I found this basic banjo thread pitch guide for "most Suzuki models" - this is relevant for brake upgrades, although with their year breakdowns, I highly doubt a 1989 vs 1994 vs 1998 GS500 caliper are going to be different sizes, same as other models that used our popular"twinpot brake mod" Tokico calipers.


Goodridge Fitting Guide - some models do vary- but most adhere to the following:
*Honda All Models 10mm x 1.25
*Kawasaki All Models 10mm x 1.25
*Suzuki Pre 1994 Models: Whole Bike: 10mm x 1.0.
*1994-2001 Models: Front Calipers 10mm x 1.25
*1994-2001 Models: Front Master Cylinder 10mm x 1.0.
*1994-2001 Models: Rear Master Cylinder and Rear Caliper 10mm x 1.0.
*2002- On: Whole Bike 10mm x1.25.
*Yamaha All Models 10mm x 1.25



And I did have better luck searching for the proper
0.420" height lightened/concave head stainless double banjo bolt for the popular GS "Twinpot brake mod" parts in the M10-1.25 using Google image search and Google shopping.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/183847841677
Several sellers listing these all as being solely for:
"M10 x 1.25 Dual Banjo Bolt For Yamaha V-Star XVS 250 650 950 1100 1300"

The concave heads are both lighter weight, & make drilling for safety wire MUCH EASIER. But in stainless, you must drill ever so slowly! It'll work harden significantly with high drilling speed/heat. I found several Titanium double banjos of this variety, already drilled for safety wire, but could not visually confirm that they were the correct fitting height.


Better yet, if needing lightest/strongest corrosion-resistant (TITANIUM!), & pre-drilled for racing regulation required safety wire, these sport bike guys have been very considerate & thorough in their advertising/customer service (& I recall them being local to me in Ohio):

https://www.kurveygirl.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=714&products_id=418

 

[850 Combat]

Summit Racing sells this stuff too. I have been buying more and more stuff from them lately. Price and availability. This stuff hasn't got any less expensive since 2012.

 

[bwringer]

FWIW, here in Indianapolis we can buy all this stuff over the counter in person at Earl's Indy down in Speedway. Their address is Gasoline Alley, close to the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. Reasonable pricing with no website headaches, and lots of other racing-related delights as well. I always grab a bunch of genuine Ty-Rap brand zip ties while I'm there. They do have a website, but it's ancient and useless other than obtaining their phone number and address.


I mean, we normally can get this stuff in person. I doubt they're open during The Virus Times. The Indy 500 has been rescheduled for August 23, but there's a ton of motorsports activity, suppliers, and teams around here and Earl's supplies them all.

 

[oldGSfan]

There's a shop about 45 minutes north of me toward LA, I was thinking of going but I will wait until my bike is together because I want to measure the one from the MC to the splitter, since I am using superbike bend bars rather than the stock ones on my GS1100E. I also want to properly bypass the anti-dive. I thought I'd like to reuse the metal springy protectors from the old lines so they look original, but the new lines will be quite a bit thinner so it probably will not work out.

FWIW, here in Indianapolis we can buy all this stuff over the counter in person at Earl's Indy down in Speedway. Their address is Gasoline Alley, close to the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. Reasonable pricing with no website headaches, and lots of other racing-related delights as well. I always grab a bunch of genuine Ty-Rap brand zip ties while I'm there. They do have a website, but it's ancient and useless other than obtaining their phone number and address.


I mean, we normally can get this stuff in person. I doubt they're open during The Virus Times. The Indy 500 has been rescheduled for August 23, but there's a ton of motorsports activity, suppliers, and teams around here and Earl's supplies them all.

 

[Allie]

FWIW, here in Indianapolis we can buy all this stuff over the counter in person at Earl's Indy down in Speedway. Their address is Gasoline Alley, close to the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. Reasonable pricing with no website headaches, and lots of other racing-related delights as well. I always grab a bunch of genuine Ty-Rap brand zip ties while I'm there. They do have a website, but it's ancient and useless other than obtaining their phone number and address.


I mean, we normally can get this stuff in person. I doubt they're open during The Virus Times. The Indy 500 has been rescheduled for August 23, but there's a ton of motorsports activity, suppliers, and teams around here and Earl's supplies them all.

I've been able to order two different times using the web, the latest was last year... but probably only because I used links from this thread. The place looks like they built it with the Geocities tool. Great product though!

 

[oldGSfan]

My hoses/fittings arrived today. I will re-use the spring protectors from the stock lines, they come up fine with an acid bath and I had a couple sets to choose the best from. Also will re-use the rubber protective sleeves for stock look. It seems a shame to have to use shrink wrap to tidy up that exposed stainless weave at the ends but I guess that's the way to do it.

Edit: Got them done, all stock stuff on there, can't tell they are aftermarket, which I like. I will block off the anti-dive with a bolt, so no short lines needed.

 

[850 Combat]

My hoses/fittings arrived today. I will re-use the spring protectors from the stock lines, they come up fine with an acid bath and I had a couple sets to choose the best from. Also will re-use the rubber protective sleeves for stock look. It seems a shame to have to use shrink wrap to tidy up that exposed stainless weave at the ends but I guess that's the way to do it.

Edit: Got them done, all stock stuff on there, can't tell they are aftermarket, which I like. I will block off the anti-dive with a bolt, so no short lines needed.

Beautiful Job. How much did the parts cost?

 

[Guest]

This looks like a great solution, Ed. Are folks still happy with the finished product?

From what I can tell, if I wanted the black hoses, it would be the -3 version of this hose?

I have single disc in the front, so the cost savings may not be as much compared to something like Goodridge, but I haven't priced that out yet. That said, I'm tempted to go ahead and do this to my V-strom while I'm at it, so it will be good for the long haul.

 

[Nessism]

This looks like a great solution, Ed. Are folks still happy with the finished product?

From what I can tell, if I wanted the black hoses, it would be the -3 version of this hose?

I have single disc in the front, so the cost savings may not be as much compared to something like Goodridge, but I haven't priced that out yet. That said, I'm tempted to go ahead and do this to my V-strom while I'm at it, so it will be good for the long haul.

Correct on the -3 black hose.

Post your experiences along the way.

Enjoy!

 

[salty_monk]

Still look good on the skunk 10 years later....

 

[bwringer]

One thing to mention -- if you are anywhere near Indianapolis, you can walk right in to the Earl's store in Speedway a few blocks from the track (the shop address is Gasoline Alley!) and buy off the shelf. An extremely cool place with all kinds of motorsports stuff. Their prices are quite reasonable as well. I always end up buying a few bags of Ty-Rap brand zip ties -- Ty-Raps are MUCH higher quality than the junk you get in hardware stores, and their prices for genuine Ty-Raps are the best I've seen.

They don't have online ordering, and the store is only open 8-5 Monday-Friday. No weekend hours. On race weekends they have people running back and forth to the track as needed but they're not open to the public.

http://www.earlsindy.com/

FWIW, the outer coating is not optional on streetbikes -- you need to keep dirt and water out of the braid, and without the coating the stainless braid will saw through anything it touches.


I'll also add an update to the above. In the winter of 2020 I wandered down to Earl's Indy in Speedway with the original front and rear lines from a GS850G I was helping a buddy with. After asking for the assorted parts to duplicate them, the guy at the counter (Mark Meko, who I believe is the General Manager) told me it would be cheaper and better to just leave the originals with him and pick up a nice fresh set of crimped lines a few days later.

That's an offer you can't refuse, honestly. And lo, so it came to pass... for an extremely reasonable $92 for two front lines and a rear line that all bolted on easily and were beautifully made. Obviously prices/speed/availability may have changed, but don't overlook this option.

The Earl's Indy website always was and remains absolutely awful, and I guess they don't care, so some sort of human interaction is necessary. And frankly, even the "big name" websites selling this stuff are pretty awful and imprecise, as others have found.

I don't know whether Earl's would be willing to do all this via mail and phone/email, but if you don't live around here it could be worth a shot. Or poke around for a race shop local to you.

Racing is still one of those fields that's very much a personal network sort of thing. There are skrillions of motorsports suppliers and shops around Indy (racing capital of the world isn't just a phrase) but they have virtually zero online presence, and few even have public storefronts. And if you're not an insider, you may not even be able to find a phone number, and they won't answer anyway.

The few times I've needed a machine shop, it's been an ordeal to track one down that would deign to speak with a mere mortal. Tons of them around here, none willing to even answer the phone unless the caller ID says "Unser", "Andretti", or "Rahal". (And the one I finally did find charged me $80 to spend two minutes destroying my part... but that's a different story.)

Even if you don't live around Indy, there's someone around catering to the local motorsports scene. But they tend to be very elusive unless you know a guy who knows a guy.