getting a stuck shim out

[timebombprod]

clearance for the shim is .04, i can get it out of the cup holding it, but it will not budge when trying to pull it out from inbetween. any tricks for it? thinking of finding a way to push it out instead of pull but the back wont raise up at all once i get it out the cup from the topside.

 

[Redman]

clearance for the shim is .04, i can get it out of the cup holding it, but it will not budge when trying to pull it out from inbetween. any tricks for it? thinking of finding a way to push it out instead of pull but the back wont raise up at all once i get it out the cup from the topside.

You didnt say anything about what method you are using to hold the valve open.......

.

 

[Redman]

Yah, somewhat push it out.
Need a little flat screwdriver anyway to pry it up (that little slot in edge of bucket). Kinda hold the upper edge with tweezers or small 90degree needle nose plyiers, and push on the lower edge with the little screw driver till the shim clears enough to hold with tweezers-pyliers.

Installing one back is a different story.

Both require the bucket depressed / valve held open.

 

[timebombprod]

i been doing the ziptie method and having the lobe point all the way up when ziptie has already been inserted. gonna go at it again in a bit with the method you gave

 

[Redman]

i been doing the ziptie method and having the lobe point all the way up when ziptie has already been inserted. gonna go at it again in a bit with the method you gave

Ziptie method has worked for many folks. (I havent done it, so I cant give too much advice.)
But Sounds like are not getting enough clearance between the bucket and the cam (bucket not down enough) if the shim is not free between the bucket and the cam. If the shim is getting stuck hard, comes to a hard stop, then probably doesnt matter how you are trying to hold it or push it.

You getting a couple thickness of the ziptie in there between the valve and valve seat?
You pushing the valve bucket down?

 

[timebombprod]

dont know if this is what you meant, but i ended up making a new ziptie tool because the one i was using had been worn down, the new one made it as easy as can be to get the new shim out

 

[timebombprod]

so i guess this will be my tip, if you're having trouble getting a shim out and you're doing the ziptie method, maybe make a new one if the old one is worn out, itll add some clearance.

 

[LAB3]

Mine don't come out real easy either, here's what works for me. As Redman mentioned, I also use a very fine (eyeglass sized) screwdriver in the bucket slot to lift the shim. Then, using a second ziptie (to avoid scratching) I nudge it from the opposite direction up the shaft of the screwdriver. When it binds, the shim is far enough out of the bucket to not slide back in and I slide the screwdriver out while maintaining a push with the ziptie to get it as far put of the rest of the bucket that I can. At that point I use a magnetic screwdriver on the end of the shom to pull it out.

Tip: Put a clean, fresh rag into the valley formed by the timing chain, you don't want to fish a shim out from down there in case you drop it!

 

[fbody_mike]

Also, I have had the oil present under the shim cause a hydraulic lock on the shim from time to time, try to soak up the oil as much as possible with some clean rags, if you have compressed air handy use that to displace the oil as much as you can too. You might be surprised what an effect that film of 10w40 has. I also use locking forceps to bite on the shim once it pops out of the bucket, they are like what the doctors use during surgery, those shims are hard I have not worried about scratching them. Cracking them like glass is more probable.

 

[roeme]

Use a magnet.

 

[1978GS750E]

Never use a magnet! The shim or bucket can be magnetized and attract metal shavings. It's in the manual, I believe.

 

[Grimly]

For years, I fished them out with a small screwdriver and a pair of long fine-nosed pliers. Last year, I discovered the delights of the clamping artery forceps with a bend on the end.
They're quite cheap, actually.

 

[Steve]

Cracking them like glass is more probable.

Especially if your official tool slips off the side of the bucket when the shim is not quite seated in the bucket.

Use a magnet.

Never use a magnet! The shim or bucket can be magnetized and attract metal shavings. It's in the manual, I believe.

I have used a small magnet to remove shims for over 40 years. I have never noticed any shavings, probably because I change my oil filter at regular intervals, not to mention that there are probably no "shavings" in the engine to start with.

My Suzuki manual for my 850 only mentions using the special tool to remove the shim (it looks like a pair of tweezers), there is no mention, or caution, about using a magnet.

.

 

[Rob S.]

...clamping artery forceps...

The Hemostat! Best damn roach clip ever made.

 

[bwringer]

I know at least one of my aftermarket manuals has the magnet warning, but as Steve said it's not in the FSM.

If you're grabbing from the edge using a reasonable magnet, it's hard to see how it could do any harm. If you're using some sort of super-magnet in the middle where the cam lobe slides across, I suppose that could cause issues. But as Steve said, if you have that many ferrous shavings that make it past the drain plug magnet and through the screens and filter up to the cylinder head, a few shavings sticking to the shim is probably the very least of your troubles.

I generally just use a big pair of tweezers.

Don't bother cleaning the oil out -- you need that film of oil and its surface tension when you install the replacement shim.


Also, reading between the lines of a few recent posts, one step I think a lot of folks are missing is to turn the crank a few times before re-checking the clearances to squish out the excess oil and make sure the shims have been fully seated into the buckets. I generally go for at least two cycles, so at least four revolutions of the crank.

 

[Buffalo Bill]

I changed my shims yesterday. When it was obvious getting them out was frustrating, I just took the bearing caps off and lifted the cams a bit out of the way.
This included pulling the airbox, carbs and removing the cam chain tensioner. Having already done it a few times recently, I can do it quickly now.
I did not have to undo the throttle and choke cables, just swing the cabs away from the cam tensioner.
The serious part of re-installing the cams is aligning all the timing marks and counting exactly 20 chain pins between the sprocket marks.
Check the manual illustration.

 

[Steve]

I have never had a shim that was "stuck" enough to warrant all THAT effort. :-k

And we have it MUCH easier with our shafties, I can't imagine suggesting that to someone with a 550 or 650.

.

 

[TeamDar]

Wow, sure is an awful lot of problems. Just use the factory Suzuki tool (not the aftermarket one). Pop the shim loose with a thin screwdriver and pull out with tweezers. No fuss no muss.

 

[Gorminrider]

I just took the bearing caps off and lifted the cams a bit out of the way.

it's way easier than yours on my 650! but Actually this has advantages.. especially on a new-to-me bike's first valve adjust. I write down all the clearances beforehand and then see what thickness each corresponding shim is. It can save me getting more shims because I can often play "musical chairs" with the shims aboard , on the next valve adjustment- once you have checked the clearances, you can lift the cams and do all the changes at once.

 

[Rijko]

I just took the bearing caps off and lifted the cams a bit out of the way.

that should not be necessary.
If there are no serious problems, lifting the cams to get shims out
is not needed.

The Suzuki tool gives enough clearance to take the shim out,
and the shims will leave the buckets easily with the help
of a small screwdriver.
If not, there is an issue with the shims and/or buckets.