GS Stator

[posplayr]

EDIT 7/12/2016:

The GS Resources Stator pages have been updated in 2016 by Frank and so I have removed the previous discussion of the GSR bias toward promoting Electrosport products. I still personally recommend teh stators assuming production continues as it has. The R/R are a definite thing to avoid.

The GSR Garage reports last modified: 02/05/14

The biggest change to Permanent Magnet (PM) alternators for motorcycles is the availability of SERIES v.s. SHUNT R/R's. Most of your metric bikes have 3 phase PM Alternators (like the GS) and traditionally these have all be fitted from the factory with SHUNT R/R's. As technology has advanced the SERIES R/R has emerged which is a night and day difference for your charging system especially as far as your stator is concerned. Less heat generated, Longer life for both stator and R/R and few burned connector. The only drawback had been price, as the after market was the only source of these retrofits. The SERIES Shindengen SH-775 has now emerged from the OEM market with a low price reflective of the mass markets.

SHUNT_vs_SERIES_RR_Compare_Tutorial

There are really few compelling reasons in this GS day of electrical charging to buy anything other than a SERIES R/R. The SH-775 is a very affordable Series R/R and can be purchased cheaper than most conventional SHUNT regulators. They are typically $70 new from Polaris dealers.

See this link for a summary.

GS Stator

It should be mentioned that some SHUNT regulators having been working for years, but that is generally limited to the smaller bikes that don't have the same heat problems as the bigger bikes. For anything at 1000 cc and above a SERIES R/R is a must. 750 cc is borderline I have little experience on bikes below that but there are many reports of no issues.

It has to do with heat dissipation and the SERIES R/R just doesn't create the same heat in the stator as the SHUNT R/R will. Yes I said stator heat . Also if you plan on going to LED lights and reducing your electrical loads you will further stress the R/R.

I have reordered the options based on my assessment of likely need and austerity of the audience. I have pushed the Honda 6 wire to below all the readily available SERIES R/R's. It has been a venerable workhouse R/R for many years thanks to it's champion Duanage, but newer SERIES technology has put this R/R past it's prime.

WARNING: Shindengen is mixing both Shunt and SERIES R/R's with the same SH prefix.
http://www.as-thyristor.com/products/Shindengen 3-Phase Regulator Rectifier SH572 Series.html

SH572 - 22 Amps
SH785 - 35 Amps
SH753 - 35 Amps
SHxx2 - 50 amps (POTENTIAL FUTURE SERIES R/R)
SH640 - 25 amps
SH821 - 35 amps
SH782 - 25 Amps
SH775 - 35 AMPS ONLY CONFIRMED SERIES R/R


#1 The SERIES Shindengen R/R SH-775 commonly available from Polaris Dealers. Search the GSR site for recent posts on best price and availability. This is most peoples number one choice for an R/R replacement because of low price, easy availability and SERIES performance. It's only down size is a fairly large form factor (same as the MOSFET FH012) made even larger if you use the mating convectors.
Series Regulator Source SH775
http://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...-R-prices-(SH775-Polaris-part-number-4012941)
SH-775 Vendor/Price List
Cheap SH-775 Connector Source

Lots would work ,but your best choice is none of them! get a SH-775 from a Polaris ATV dealer their part #4012941 . search on the forum for reasons why.

Steve has graciously done the price checking for online ones- if you got a Polaris dealer near you, inquire ,cuz they might be close or willing to bargain.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showpost.php?p=1998089&postcount=104

Another Tip on the SH-775 from DeCosse

p.s. I also just found while searching EBay and cross-referencing OEM Parts Fiche that SeaDoo and CanAM also use this same Shindengen SH775 Regulator under their OEM part number 710001103.
Now - the new price is about 2x that of the exacts same Polaris OEM part - even from same common dealer!
But there are a lot of used SeaDoo/CanAm SH775 on Ebay (although still about the same price used as a brand new Polaris-sourced part)

#2 The SERIES Compufire R/R CF55402 (only part number applicable to 3 phase PM alternators like GS Suzuki)

The Compufire is my favorite as it is the smallest SERIES R/R available here in the US and is a MOSFET SERIES design which results in slightly superior performance to the SH-775 in terms of lower power dissipation, higher (low RPM) output voltage and lower OFF state current draw.
General results should apply to any SERIES R/R not just the Compufire.
Compufire SERIES R/R Poll
Compufire Installation Thread

#3 The SERIES R/R's from CycleElectric (600 line; there are several 3 phase models)
The CycleElectic which is an older design and uses SCR's is capable of 50 amps ; It is also the largest.
http://cycleelectricinc.com/

#4 If you don't want to buy one of the SERIES R/R's above (It is possible you just don't have the money and for smaller CC bikes with less cooling issues it doesn't matter as much) The Honda(or equivalent 6 wire R/R formerly sold by Duanage) is your best SHUNT design R/R.
Honda R/R Poll
SH541 regulator (8 wire with sense, 25 amp rating)
How To Honda R/R Install

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?228540-Honda-RR-kits-available-again

Silent-Hektek: And now a German Company that has made these for years (no further data on these)
German made SERIES R/R: Silent-Hektik

Regleri: No promises here as I can't even read the website, but apparently this company in Croatia makes series R/R's. The schematics of the SCR's on the packages make it appear as if they are opening the circuits and are in fact SERIES v.s. SHUNT. They do specifically list one SHUNT R/R .
http://regler.sper.hr/regleri.htm

Apparently it is a combination(SERIES then SHUNT R/R) , SERIES at low speed when voltages and timing are slower and goes to SHUNT at high speed presumably because it cant manage SERIES over 8K RPM.



And some fake SERIES R/R's (STAY AWAY)
http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=173731

None of the Electrosport products have done little to improve the stator thermal problems with SHUNT regulation.
In fact the only thing the Electro sport R/R is better than is the old single phase regulated shunt R/R's like the one I had in my 1981 GS750E.
Fried Stator Pole

There are even MOSFET R/R's commonly available which are better than the Electrosport SCR shunt R/R. See these listed in Matchless's thread on R/R part numbers. The MOSFET (is still SHUNT) will get less hot that an stock/electrosport SCR R/R , but it might make the stator a little hotter.
Rectifier/Regulator replacement list

If anything the stator pages series has gotten more convoluted and less accurate. They have not even corrected the Phase A or Phase B test descriptions.

 

[Rover]

We keep telling new people to read the stator papers..... so they(stator papers) should be up to date.
Thanks for keeping on top of this.

 

[posplayr]

Bump......................

http://www.genebitsystems.com/david/MotorcyclePrep/statorfailure.htm

Regleri: No promises here as I can't even read the website, but apparently this company in Croatia makes series R/R's. The schematics of the SCR's on the packages make it appear as if they are opening the circuits and are in fact SERIES v.s. SHUNT. They do specifically list one SHUNT R/R .
http://regler.sper.hr/regleri.htm

Apparently it is a combination(SERIES then SHUNT R/R) , SERIES at low speed when voltages and timing are slower and goes to SHUNT at high speed presumably because it cant manage SERIES over 8K RPM.

 

[posplayr]

Bump .......

 

[Guest]

+1 on the need for an update.

My GS550L is my first GS-series bike. Knew it needed carb work & the charging system was a mess.

Found the carb info on this forum to be really helpful.

Have a good bit of experience with Suzuki two-stroke electrical systems.
Knew that the GS-series stock setup of regulating only one phase of a three-phase alternator wasn't too swift.
Found some useful info on this forum, but didn't appreciate the issue of shunt vs. series R/R.

So I went with Electrosport stator & R/R.

Now the charging system works fine. But I'm not sure how long that will last.

 

[almarconi]

This link is invalid

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=192394&highlight=Shindengen


What was in the post?

 

[Nessism]

Unless the original author is still around, which doesn't seem to be the case, then how can Frank update the document? Might be better to completely replace it instead of editing someone else's work.

Jim, I nominate YOU to write a new procedure. I'll review and then we can ask Frank to replace the Stator Papers completely.

 

[GSXR7ED]

This is good info...I haven't had any issues but I'm sure it's a good idea to review...now as well as when it's updated.


Ed

 

[Guest]

Maybe I should replace my electrex....

 

[posplayr]

Not sure how many of you have noticed, but this seems to have recently appeared (at least I have never seen it before) in a forum link "Our History" located at the upper left of the home page.


http://thegsresources.com/files/The History of The GSResources.pdf


It describes the early start of the GS Resources and the spawning of a new business called Electrex. This would seem to explain the influences of Electrosport found here at the GSR. If I'm not mistaken, Electrex is now Electrosport in the US.

After Mark got his college degree he no longer had the time to run the site and with his leaving college, the website needed to be moved to another server. Peter then moved the website over to servers in the
Netherlands and he took on the duties of Editor-in-Chief. Peter got hold of a friend whom he met in college, Ritzo Muntinga. Ritzo was an electrical engineer and together they worked in diagnosing the stator problem. In fact, because of demand, Ritzo formed a new company Electrex, which sold replacement stators and rectifiers for Suzuki GS's. At that time, Ritzo supported the site by paying the web hosting bill and in exchange The GSResources had banner ads for Electrex on the website.Eventually Peter moved the site from an outside webhost to the servers where he was working at

 

[GSXR7ED]

^^Interesting Read...thanks posplayr.



Ed

 

[posplayr]

^^Interesting Read...thanks posplayr.



Ed

I have also updated the R/R recommendation list under the link "GS Stator" in my signature.

If there are any other relevant links I can add those. Will need to start a SH-775 poll as well.

 

[posplayr]

A weekend Bump

 

[Guest]

what would it take to pull the stator papers completely and start fresh? I just saw in another thread how someone else has "upgraded" to an electrex reg/rec on advice from the stator papers.....

 

[tom203]

Yes, some folks are buying on old information. I think posplayr could edit the first section of his old thread with a update regarding the SH-775; this charging stuff seems overwhelming to some

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showpost.php?p=1138531&postcount=1

 

[posplayr]

Yes, some folks are buying on old information. I think posplayr could edit the first section of his old thread with a update regarding the SH-775; this charging stuff seems overwhelming to some

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showpost.php?p=1138531&postcount=1

I did some updates to the GS Charging thread and also look at the first post in this thread.

 

[bwanna]

I came across this writing and was wondering what you're thoughts were on what the person presents regarding series vs. shunt regulators and higher voltages being created in the stator. I'm not looking to debate the topic or play one against the other... I'm very interested in the science explanation.

Thanks

http://burgmanusa.com/forums/15-burgman-650/64617-650-charging-system.html

 

[posplayr]

I came across this writing and was wondering what you're thoughts were on what the person presents regarding series vs. shunt regulators and higher voltages being created in the stator. I'm not looking to debate the topic or play one against the other... I'm very interested in the science explanation.

Thanks

http://burgmanusa.com/forums/15-burgman-650/64617-650-charging-system.html

The plots tell all; unloaded the stator puts out about 80 volts per 5K RPM ; it goes up proportionately. It only stays lower when loaded. Remember this is the reason that you don't have to fuse the R/R.

So at the maximum voltage that the R/R might see is 160-200 v pp from leg to leg. That is certainly something that can be designed in by proper parts selection. The OP in that thread, is just getting up to speed on this and has apparently not looked at any wave forms, but yes he is correct. However typical stator and stator insulation don't seem to have an arch over problem.

Remember a typical marine grade wire is typically rated at 600V. You house wiring is 120V RMS so that is close to 170V peak to peak. The difference is you can load that house AC down with a 15 amp load on the typical house circuit before blowing a load. The alternator is probably only capable of 250 watts so even at 80VAC at 5K rpm if you pull more than .32 amps the voltage will drop.

One thing that has been notes is voltage irregularities at high RPM on a GSXR 600 at 16K RPM; Is it possible that it is a over voltage or arch over issue? Don't know.

 

[bwanna]

The plots tell all; unloaded the stator puts out about 80 volts per 5K RPM ; it goes up proportionately. It only stays lower when loaded. Remember this is the reason that you don't have to fuse the R/R.

So at the maximum voltage that the R/R might see is 160-200 v pp from leg to leg. That is certainly something that can be designed in by proper parts selection. The OP in that thread, is just getting up to speed on this and has apparently not looked at any wave forms, but yes he is correct. However typical stator and stator insulation don't seem to have an arch over problem.

Remember a typical marine grade wire is typically rated at 600V. You house wiring is 120V RMS so that is close to 170V peak to peak. The difference is you can load that house AC down with a 15 amp load on the typical house circuit before blowing a load. The alternator is probably only capable of 250 watts so even at 80VAC at 5K rpm if you pull more than .32 amps the voltage will drop.

One thing that has been notes is voltage irregularities at high RPM on a GSXR 600 at 16K RPM; Is it possible that it is a over voltage or arch over issue? Don't know.

Once again, thanks for the explanation! Occum's Razor seems to still hold true.

 

[posplayr]

Once again, thanks for the explanation! Occum's Razor seems to still hold true.

I had never heard of that but I have to agree there is a lot of "truth" in the razor. However being a technical person, the razor is really too non specific to be used in an technical setting.

In engineering , the best solution to a problem is the one that can be proved to be optimal for the conditions stated. So the razor reliance on the simplest explanation or proof or solution is not necessarily the best.

Having said that, in Systems Engineering there are formalized trade studies where several metrics are used to pick the "best solution". Often what happens is there are so many considerations and many of them less than pivotal, that ends up de-weighting the important stuff. A more careful (i.e. simpler) selection of the trade study criteria might have been in order.

Another area that stands out is in modern computer based controls and optimization. In the old days analytic solutions were developed for almost everything where the solution might have been programmed into the computer.

Nowadays we do big simulations and brute force optimizations that through much complexity arrive at optimized solutions. The older solutions might provide more insight, but to be analytically tractable had to have much of the real world complexity left out. The ability to add the complexity back in and still crunch the numbers provides for much of today's powerful adaptive system, performance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor


I would rather hold on to a quote attributed to Einstein "......Make it simple but not too simple".

Look what I just found.

http://blog.adamnash.com/2013/09/25/make-things-as-simple-as-possible-but-not-simpler/