1980 GS450E wont start

[CycloneGS]

Yeah I have both manuals and a multimeter. I dont know how to use the multimeter and I havent had time to read up on it yet. any tips?

I can pull off the cover and check in there too.

Its tough to get going when I only have 30 minutes here and there.

 

[Flaming Chainsaws]

Yeah I have both manuals and a multimeter. I dont know how to use the multimeter and I havent had time to read up on it yet. any tips?

I can pull off the cover and check in there too.

Its tough to get going when I only have 30 minutes here and there.

OK. Do these tests. These came out of the Haynes manual, page 117-124. Refer to that if needed.

Testing the signal generator is easy. Test the component side.

1. Disconnect the signal generator.
2. Set the multimeter to resistance (ohms). Looks like a horseshoe.
3. Place one probe on the brown wire (doesn't matter which probe).
4. Place the other probe on the green/white wire.
5. If it measures between 60-80 ohms, it is still good. If not, it is faulty.

Testing the ignition coils.

1. Remove the gas tank so that you can get to the coils.
2. Unplug all connections from the coils. That includes the sparkplug wire and wiring harness wires.
3. Set the multimeter to resistance (ohms).
4. Start with the left coil. We will measure the primary resistance first.
5. Place one probe on the white wire. It does not matter which probe you use.
6. Place the other probe on the orange/white wire.
7. You should get a reading of 3.5-4.5 ohms.
8. Now let's check the secondary winding resistance. Set the multimeter to k ohms.
9. Place one probe on white wire.
10. Place the other probe in the sparkplug cap.
11. You should get a reading between 23-25k ohms. If it's low by a few thousands, try buying new NGK sparkplug caps then redo the test. Despite the manual, the coils are still good if the secondary winding resistance measures at least over 16k ohms.
12. Then it's the same process with the right coil except the right coil will have a black/yellow wire instead of a white wire.

Testing the igniter.

1. Unscrew both sparkplugs.
2. Put sparkplugs back into the spark plug cap.
3. Ground the sparkplugs to the engine. Like this.
4. Set the multimeter to resistance (ohms).
5. Disconnect the igniter.
6. Turn ignition to ON.
7. Connect the negative probe to black/white wire.
8. Connect the positive probe to the brown wire.
9. Check to see if a spark appears on the right sparkplug.
10. Connect the negative probe to the black/white wire.
11. Connect the positive probe to the green/white wire.
12. Check to see if a spark appears on the left sparkplug.
13. Did you see any spark? If not, the igniter is faulty.

Hope this helps you out!

 

[CycloneGS]

signal generator: 113 ohms This means I have to replace this component, right?

Right coil: primary 4.1, secondary 12.29

Left coil: primary 4.0, secondary 12.6

 

[Guest]

signal generator: 113 ohms This means I have to replace this component, right?

Right coil: primary 4.1, secondary 12.29

Left coil: primary 4.0, secondary 12.6

Nope, your signal generator is probably good. There's a typo up above FC, should be brown to black/white, then green/white to black/white to check both individually. Both of these should give you 60 - 80 ohms each.

Also, I'd be measuring these at the solder joints on the back of each pickup coil under the ignition cover unless you know the connectors are 100% clean.

Brown to green/white is including both coils in the measurement in series, so 113 ohms is a bit low but probably good. It's not a reliable measurement though.

From memory your coils look good.

 

[Guest]

Actually, re-reading FC's post above, his ignitor steps are slightly inaccurate, but close.

Don't disconnect the ignitor, instead disconnect the signal generator.

You can then connect the mulitmeter leads as described to the connector going to the ignitor (if that makes sense).

But BE CAREFUL!!!! Make sure the negative lead of the multimeter only ever goes to the black/white wire, never to the brown or green/white wires as this could kill your ignitor.

Alternatively, you can use a 1.5v battery to do this same test, once again ensuring negative only ever goes to the black/white wire.

There is also another very quick and dirty test for your coils/spark plugs/plug caps.

- Disconnect the ignitor and signal generator
- Turn ignition and kill switch on etc.
- For the left plug, locate the white wire on the wiring harness side of the ignitor connector.
- Use a piece of wire or similar to flick this to ground which should cause a spark to fire.
- Repeat for the black/yellow wire for the right plug.

A couple of other basic tests:

- Ensure you have 12v coming out of the ignition switch and kill switch.
- Ensure you have 12v on the orange/white wires at both coils.

Don't forget also that if any of these tests fails, it doesn't prove the particular component is faulty, it just means that that component, and anything else it relies on is not working correctly, so you may need to do further tests.

For example, if your ignitor ground or 12v lead is not connected correctly, it won't spark and therefore the ignitor test will fail even though it's not necessarily a faulty ignitor.

Hope that helps some...

 

[Flaming Chainsaws]

Nope, your signal generator is probably good. There's a typo up above FC, should be brown to black/white, then green/white to black/white to check both individually. Both of these should give you 60 - 80 ohms each.

Also, I'd be measuring these at the solder joints on the back of each pickup coil under the ignition cover unless you know the connectors are 100% clean.

Brown to green/white is including both coils in the measurement in series, so 113 ohms is a bit low but probably good. It's not a reliable measurement though.

From memory your coils look good.

Oops! Well, I pulled these tests straight out of the Haynes...

 

[CycloneGS]

I got spark!

I started some of the tests but ended up just tracing my power from the batter out through the wiring. I found a problem in the yellow/green starter wire from the solenoid to the clutch handle, so I reconnected the wiring correctly (previous owner had run their own wire from the solenoid to the green starter plug skipping the wiring harness). I pulled the clutch lever, cranked it and I got spark at the plugs!

I reconnected everything and installed the gas tank to see if she would start but I ran out of battery before I had fuel to the carbs.

Battery is on the charger!

 

[CycloneGS]

ok. now its acting funny.

I was able to get it started but only one time.

The neutral light illuminated for the first time in a week. but now it will not come on and it wont start. Of course im in neutral and I pulled the clutch too. I think maybe my ignition switch is f-ed up.

 

[Guest]

Oops! Well, I pulled these tests straight out of the Haynes...

All good FC, just didn't want him to blow his ignitor

Also, that's why I don't trust the Haynes and always use the Clymer now...

ok. now its acting funny.

I was able to get it started but only one time.

The neutral light illuminated for the first time in a week. but now it will not come on and it wont start. Of course im in neutral and I pulled the clutch too. I think maybe my ignition switch is f-ed up.

Mate you got a dodgy connection somewhere! Good to hear you have spark though

Definitely go through all your grounds, and use that multimeter to check for voltage at every connection from your battery to fuse to ignition and so on.

Also, if you have a glass fuse, replace it in case it is intermittent. I replaced mine recently and even though it worked, when I pulled it out it fell apart in my hands.

 

[CycloneGS]

I cleaned up all the connections and performed the tests for the ignition in the manual.

Signal generator is good.

Coils tested fine.

Ignition is not good. I can't get a spark at the plugs, consistently. After I had a spark at the plugs I fumbled with the starter solenoid connections and it went away. So I cleaned up those connections and still I did not get a spark.

If my igniter was going out would it sometime give a spark and sometimes not?

Can I pull out the igniter and test it?

Im about to buy a new igniter and starter relay and see what happens.

Oh yeah, I have 12v power everywhere.

 

[Guest]

I cleaned up all the connections and performed the tests for the ignition in the manual.

Signal generator is good.

Coils tested fine.

Ignition is not good. I can't get a spark at the plugs, consistently. After I had a spark at the plugs I fumbled with the starter solenoid connections and it went away. So I cleaned up those connections and still I did not get a spark.

If my igniter was going out would it sometime give a spark and sometimes not?

Can I pull out the igniter and test it?

Im about to buy a new igniter and starter relay and see what happens.

Oh yeah, I have 12v power everywhere.

Crucial one... how's the ground lead for your ignitor? Made sure it's actually grounding well and not corroded etc.? Also, triple check your signal generator connections etc. as FC found at one point that he had gunk deep down inside the connectors that he found by accident when he stuck a multimeter probe down there.

From what I've seen so far, inconsistent means something connection wise isn't right, rather than a faulty ignitor.

Finding a good replacement ignitor for these can be tough.

 

[CycloneGS]

my igniter ground is grounded to the same metal plate that theigniter, solenoid, and R/R are mounted on. I took the ground all the way to bare metal.

My signal generator tested perfect through the connector and both ends of the connection are clean.

 

[Guest]

Hmmm...

It certainly could be the ignitor, I'd just hate to see you go to all the trouble of finding a good replacement only to find out it's something else.

The problem I'm having is that it's intermittent, but when it is working, it sounds like it's working correctly.

Have you tried short circuiting the clutch switch and/or sidestand switch if you have one? I've seen numerous times on here where they've been proven to cause this sort of thing. Mine has neither so I can't confirm that.

 

[CycloneGS]

Yeah, I bypassed the clutch switch.

I have more problems. My carb bowls were full of fuel! so full that it leaked out. when I tried to start it. This is good and bad, good because it means my petcock must be ok since it only leaks when I try to start it, but bad because now I have fuel in my oil! This damned bike...

I'm going to pull the carbs and reset my float height and drain and refill the oil. I might make time to pull the carbs tonight. I have to remove the exhaust to change the oil too.

How bad is it for the engine wil gas in there? I have been cranking it like this...

 

[Guest]

Bugger! I can't imagine fuel in the oil would be that good but I guess it depends on how much too.

Personally I'd probably lean towards the paranoid side though and get some fresh stuff in...

 

[CycloneGS]

So I changed the oil and filter.

Then I pulled the carbs to check the float height and one of my floats had a leak and filled up with fuel. Thats why it was flooding like all hell, it couldnt shut off the gas flow.

I found a float at motorcyclecarbs.com for $25.

Thanks for the help, I will keep you updated.

PS: my spark is good now!

 

[Guest]

Aaah another problem solved! Nice one

Any ideas on how you got spark to be reliable?

 

[CycloneGS]

Not really sure on how the spark came to be reliable Pete. My best guess is that the plugs were just getting really wet and saturated with gas.

 

[Guest]

To me that makes sense, to someone more knowledgeable who knows

 

[CycloneGS]

All right, I have new floats installed and that wasnt the problem.

So I decided that I would look at the ground on the engine block coming from the Neg. battery terminal. I loosened the bolt on the engine to remove the ground wire but I couldnt remove the bolt because it wouldnt clear the frame. The bolt looked rusty around the head and near by threads so I clipped the ground wire and regrounded it to the frame behind the battery box on the right side of the bike. Still no spark.

I have checked the actual starter button on the Right control and its super clean and all intact.


I jiggled the Yellow/Gr wire from the starter solenoid to my ignition and then my starter button woulnt cause the starter to crank. I didnt do much more than just jiggle it so I think the soldering was poor. I will fix this soon as I get a soldering iron but Im hoping this is the weak link.

Any advice would be appreciated. I have gone through the electrical testing in the manual but its tough when the spark is inconsistent.