balancing?

[Boriqua]

I know .. use the search. I did and read for hours .. Oh and forget when I started on Balancing beads yay or nay!!
Some of you guys have very strong opinions

I have a somewhat specific question.

Do I have to balance?

I bought a tube with balancing beads pre installed but then didnt use it. Currently my tire is mounted up without any balancing. I read that I should or might experience vibrations or ??

So I went out today specifically to do some highway. I dont do a lot of highway but I wanted to go through all speeds. I rode out on the surface streets and went between 50 and 60 MPH. I jumped on the highway to head home and went about 8 miles between 75 and 80. On a couple of occasions I let go the throttle to let it surge down to 65 just to see if it would react poorly and then would zip it back up to 80. I then took the surface streets home at various speeds.

The only thing I could absolutely notice is that the bike seems to cross parallel grooves far more smoothly than it did before. I dont know if it is the switch from old hard rubber to soft new rubber or the change from the 130 width to the 120 but in my area there are several long gashes in the highway that run in the direction of traffic and once a year they come and they pour some black stuff on it but its still an indent and with the old tires it was a little butt clinching but with the new rear and new front I hardly noticed them when changing lanes.

Other than that .. I couldnt notice any MORE and possibly less vibration than the bike had before but .. the bike as you guys know vibrates of its own free will anyway. I didnt notice any funkiness when down throttling or accelerating. In fact .. the bike felt freagin awesome!

So I have a brand new package with a balance beads kit. I am hesitant to put it in since all seems fine. That whole . "if it aint broke..." thing.

So what are the down sides to not balancing at all?

 

[93Bandit]

My only wheel/tire balancing experience is in the automotive/heavy truck world. In that world, sometimes I'd put a wheel on the balancer after changing the tire and it wouldn't need additional weight. That didn't happen all the time but it did occasionally. Obviously this is different than what you did because I used a balancer to confirm that the wheel didn't need to be balanced, instead of relying on my butt in the seat @ 80mph.

All that to say, in my opinion, if you didn't notice any wheel vibration at speed, I wouldn't worry about it. HOWEVER, as mentioned above my experience is in the automotive/heavy truck world. These older bikes might be more susceptible to component damage due to a slightly unbalanced wheel that the butt can't detect but a balancer would.

I would wait for the gurus to reply...

 

[Guest]

I think the balance beads are garbage, some people seem to like them? Its easy enough to static balance your tire if you wanted to, I usually just check to make sure the heaviest part of my wheel is actually where the valve stem is at with the tire off, and if it is, I don't worry too much about balancing, since I don't take my bike to extreme speeds eg track days, and I've never experienced a tire imbalance induced wobble at street speeds. Your bike, your peace of mind though.

 

[Steve]

I have no personal experience with beads, only what I have seen posted and heard at the "bench racing" sessions.

Should you balance? YES. This time around, you evidently got lucky, since you have not noticed anything. Next time, before you put the wheel back on the bike, put the axle in and support it with a couple of jackstands or boxes or whatever you might have that will keep the wheel off the ground. Spin it a bit to warm up the grease in the bearings, then slow it down so it will stop on its own. Note the position of the valve stem when it stops. Rotate the wheel 90?, see if it moves to where it stopped last time. Repeat several times to see if there is a pattern. If it is consistent, add some weight at the top of the wheel and repeat until the wheel stops in random places. At that point, it should be balanced well enough for any speeds that are reasonably-attained on a GS.

.

 

[Rob S.]

Should you balance? YES.

Agreed....

 

[tas850g]

Should you balance? YES. This time around, you evidently got lucky, since you have not noticed anything. Next time, before you put the wheel back on the bike, put the axle in and support it with a couple of jackstands or boxes or whatever you might have that will keep the wheel off the ground. Spin it a bit to warm up the grease in the bearings, then slow it down so it will stop on its own. Note the position of the valve stem when it stops. Rotate the wheel 90?, see if it moves to where it stopped last time. Repeat several times to see if there is a pattern. If it is consistent, add some weight at the top of the wheel and repeat until the wheel stops in random places. At that point, it should be balanced well enough for any speeds that are reasonably-attained on a GS. .

This is about the way the tire vendors do it at the track. No need for computerized balances. Way over thinking it.

 

[LAB3]

As to how it handles over rain grooves, I've found that tread pattern makes a huge difference. Personally I avoid tires with a tread groove that runs straight down the center of the tread for that very reason. They probably go in a straight line better but in rain grooves and bridge grates they take on a mind on their own.

 

[Steve]

Good point. Unfortunately, the popular Shinko 230 TourMaster has a groove down the middle. Yeah, it wiggles a bit, but it's still straight enough down the middle to track on rain grooves and bridge grates. Easy enough to deal with, it's just an eye-opener the first time it happens.

.

 

[93Bandit]

MI "roads" are the worst and definitely increase the butt-pucker factor when dodging pot holes, canyons, craters and cracks on a bike. I've had a few side steps and about lost it. I need new rubber which might help.

 

[davegs850]

I have always had tires balanced, but it has never made perfect sense to me. It seems to me as the tire becomes worn,the balance would change.This is where beads seem to make more sense to me. I am far from an expert. Just throwing it out there for discussion.

 

[Gorminrider]

I have a brand new package with a balance beads kit. I am hesitant to put it in since all seems fine. That whole . "if it aint broke..." thing.

I'd say no. Example is good- they don't put these in at any tire shop I've been too. Simple is good.

So what are the down sides to not balancing at all?

It's been said already but if you don't need balancing, you don't.

But I always check it...given the rims themseves are balanced( I actually check them BEFORE I put a new tire on) and you got whatever mark the tire had in the "right spot" (again, I will actually spin the evenly placed tire before inflating just to see if it's grossly wrong while it's still "shift-able" on the rim- this might make a little more sense if the tire has a tube to hold it evenly in place-it makes even more where the tire or tube has a patch )

And finally, with the tire bead set, on the bench, on the axle. It helps to wiggle the axle backn forth to counteract the friction of the bearing grease- it seems pretty subtle balancing to this degree but you are trying to get it as balanced as you can and when choosing a weight within grams, it makes a difference to the "good job" I think I am doing. I wonder sometimes if my bubble would be burst getting my home-balanced wheel spun at a tire store...
But all that said, if a small weight comes off, I haven't noticed. And if I am adding big weights, I am thinking I did something wrong if the rim isn't the problem.

Really, the grossest misbalance I've had is that the tire isn't actually seated properly despite what I thought and how it looks. If there's a definite thump-thump in the ride, that's one that needs looking for first by tracing the tire's faint "bead line" very closely all around both sides of the rim....

 

[Guest]

Really, the grossest misbalance I've had is that the tire isn't actually seated properly despite what I thought and how it looks. If there's a definite thump-thump in the ride, that's one that needs looking for first by tracing the tire's faint "bead line" very closely all around both sides of the rim....

Is this why I've seen tire change shops thump the sidewall of the tire on both sides with a mallet, to make sure the bead is seated all the way? Makes sense I think.

 

[LAB3]

MI "roads" are the worst and definitely increase the butt-pucker factor when dodging pot holes, canyons, craters and cracks on a bike. I've had a few side steps and about lost it. I need new rubber which might help.

You want to try flat out CRAZY rain grooves, I-69 running East out of Flint is insane!

 

[LAB3]

Good point. Unfortunately, the popular Shinko 230 TourMaster has a groove down the middle. Yeah, it wiggles a bit, but it's still straight enough down the middle to track on rain grooves and bridge grates. Easy enough to deal with, it's just an eye-opener the first time it happens.

.

Good to know on the Shinko 230, I'd have guessed the zig-zag pattern would negate that problem.

 

[Steve]

The 230 does wiggle a little, but it's nothing to worry about.
Just hold the bars lightly, maintain light throttle, let the bike pick its own path.

.

 

[Boriqua]

Alright so I installed the beads. I read and read and read on various websites and watched a bunch of videos and ... was left almost as confused as when I started.

The bike felt just fine without doing anything but mounting the tire and my tire DID NOT come with a dot. The idea and physics behind the centrifugal balancing seemed inherently valid??

Mostly what I got from 5 days of reading different forums was .. there were a bunch of people who tried them and swore by them and a bunch of people who dismissed it as snake oil without having tried it soooooo

What could go wrong I thought ... I will give it a shot and if it feels wonky .. as much as it would suck .. I could take the wheel off, break the bead and stick a vacuum cleaner nozzle in there.

AND .. for maybe only the third time ever I could contribute to the group instead of taking.

I will start with .. this is ALL seat of pants and I come from a lineage that has been known to produce round bubble butts so your butts experience may vary.

Keep in mind, as I previously posted .. I had gotten the bike up to 80 on the speedo (I think my speedo registers about 4mph fast) with no ill effects with no balancing and I tried to make the bike shudder doing things I had read others complain about. I couldn't force a wobble or tire out feeling no matter how I tried

I purchased an MC kit on Ebay from this place for about $15
https://eztirebeads.com/collections/all

I had it before I received the tire but I had also bought a tire tube with beads already installed that I did not use.

I put the beads in this morning. I contacted the company and it was suggested that I put 2oz in the rear. The kit comes with a small bottle with nozzle, a small section of hose, Very basic instructions, a valve removal tool and a 1 oz and 2 oz sealed bag of Magic beads.
2oz of beads doesnt look or feel like much so I was wondering how much of an effect it could have.

I positioned my valve stem at about 4 oclock and after removing the valve core I attached the small hose and snipped the nozzle on the little bottle. The nozzle already had a hole but it was not large enough. Note .. dont make a huge hole because to much product can come out at once and can potentially get stuck at the valve. I opened it up just enough so I could tickle the product in.

I read post after post about how hard it was to put this stuff in. WHY!? With the bike on the center stand the valve core removed and the valve at 4 oclook I attached the little bottle to the hose and instead of trying to dump it wholesale into the valve I held the bottle at less than 45 degrees and tapped it against the edge of my disk. Every now and again I might hold the bottle nozzle up and pump it some to make the air gently go in and out.

I was reinstalling the valve core in about 5 minutes. It was truly a nothing.

Fill the tire up and off I go. I set off toward pebble beach which will take me through the mountains and has some fair curves. It nice because it takes a couple of miles to get there so I would warm up the tire.

At first .. I couldnt tell any difference. I read that people heard a sloshing sound from the beads. They must be putting in a hell of a lot of beads because walking the bike out of my car port I didnt hear anything and when I got home I put my ear near the rear wheel and turned it slowly and still couldnt hear anything.

The first 3 miles or so is pretty much going between 35-45 MPH and it "felt" the same as every other time I have ever rode the bike. Same as yesterday with a new unbalanced tire and same as before the tire change. Same as virtually every other motorcycle I have ever ridden.

Then I got to the open part of my trip. I dont know if you ever had a car that seems to settle in at a certain speed and actually squat but its kind of what happened to the bike. Suddenly at about 55mph .. the bike got real quiet. It was actually a little weird. As I approached 55 it really did just smooth out.

I went about 5 miles over the mountain and took the turns a bit easy because I didn't know what to expect and the tires will make me feel better with a little more scrub time but .. 60-70 mph upright and bent left and right and the bike felt great.

Made my u turn in the parking lot and headed back and took the turns a little more aggressively. I had read that if you dip into turns with beads the bike want to get upright. Truth is .. I dont think this old bike is taut enough to pick up those kind of nuances with the addition of 2 oz of material

I passed home and jumped on the highway. Same experience .. climbing the speedo on the on ramp and about 50mph it settles in nicely. I get the bike up to around 85mph and hold it for about 2 miles or so. Doing fine but .. the bike is going to vibrate because of what it is at 85 anyway but I didnt feel anything squirrely.

Figured I would go for a little more and touched the 90mph on my speedo and suddenly .. Weird stuff happens and it starts to react badly. I figured I had hit its shortcoming speed!!! The beads are gonna send me into the cactus!!

Opps .. I ran into reserve!! It was sputtering out and that is what I felt. Had nothing to do with the beads. At 85 I reach down to play with my pingle and off we go again. I never got lower than say 70 while on the highway and when leaving the off ramp I purposely brought it down quickly. Another theory I had read is that when you decelerate quickly things would go bad. I don't know .. didn't happen to me.

I rode home on the surface streets whipping in and out of traffic at various speeds and being abusive to my throttle and brakes because it was damned fun but .. except for the fact that above 50 the bike just changes to this benign creature .. I noticed no ill effects.

In the end .. I will leave a bit more confusion. Would lead weights have made the ride noticeably better in the 0-45 range? I dont know. It didnt ride any worse than it did before and since my memory wont go back to when I owned almost the same bike in the late 70's I dont know how good that band was. My old tire was pretty well shot so who knows.

I will say this. Here are things I read. Deceleration will cause an issue. Didn't happen to me, Bumps will throw off the whole thing, didnt happen to me, Leaning over aggressively will be thwarted .. didnt happen to me. Its a pain to install, didnt happen to me, it can clog your valve and cause a flat .. we shall wait and see.

The only thing my butt ride felt was that at highway speed it was noticeably more mild. In normal parts of the country where highway speeds are about 60-70 .. it would be golden. Were I still in NYC I would think I just discovered the holy grail. I rode 50 miles today in different conditions from stopped to registered 90 and it felt fine.

So there you have it .. another anecdotal report. When I have 6000 miles on the tire I will report back!

 

[Boriqua]

The 230 does wiggle a little, but it's nothing to worry about.
Just hold the bars lightly, maintain light throttle, let the bike pick its own path.

.

That is funny .. back in the day when some of my freinds were getting into riding and they would have the first expereince with the bridge grates and freak I would tell them

The bike knows what its doing .. so long as you dont F it up it will be fine. Just hold the bars lightly and enjoy the vibration.

 

[rphillips]

First thing is the grooved pavement, the first time I hit it, I liked to have sh...tted in my pants. I was new to bikes anyway & didn't realize what had happened. Within a few mi. I realized don't get excited, don't slow down drastically, just keep going with the bike & things will be all right. Now the beads, like others have said, I did a lot of reading before I decided to try them. Like Boriqua, I found most everyone who had tried them, liked them & had good luck with them. Most everyone who didn't like them, had never tried them, just knew they wouldn't work. It was a surprise to me, but one of our local bike shops only used beads for balancing tires & I never remember folks coming back & complaining about a tire that was out of balance. I finally got on board with the beads as has one of my closest buddies, neither of us have found, felt, seen, nor heard anything out of the ordinary. I don't know how they work, but I'm completely pleased with them.

 

[Gorminrider]

Is this why I've seen tire change shops thump the sidewall of the tire on both sides with a mallet, to make sure the bead is seated all the way? Makes sense I think.

hammers? mmm there might be a technique but My First DIY tire on with no leaks but "thump-thump-thump" at low speeds-(the tire's "rim line was definitely wrong)... I deflated, hammered, reinflated, soaped more,squeezed with straps, in every possible combo and sequence and even went to the "gas-station-that-had-an-air-pump" . On and on the fruitless struggle..finally I gave up and thumbled to my friendly local mechanic -he just applied more air. POP!

POP! that's the sound I want to hear. The only tires I've had that ever went on without a good strong POP, started leaking at the bead a few months later so I take it as important now.

 

[alke46]

That popping sound is good to hear but since I started going tubeless on my 79 1000E wheels, I never get a "pop" sound. They do seem to seal up OK, just not the pop I would like to hear. I believe I am on my 3rd set of tires without tubes and no problems yet.