Motor Swap: 1150 into an 1100EZ

[CivilRock]

Mounting the GSX600 oil cooler

Mounting the GSX600 oil cooler

I'm glad I didn't go for the 750 cooler because this thing is massive compared to a GS1150 oil cooler.

With just a little massaging, it bolted right up to the horn mounting bolt holes. I'm going to make some adapters to move it up an inch and they'll tilt the bottom of the cooler out away from the headers more. I spent over an hour with two tiny flat heads straightening out all the blemishes in the cooler fins. I'll touch it up with some paint once everything is sorted out.

I also had some header tape that's been laying around for over 10 years, so I thought I'd put it to use. It will cover up the blued headers (I blued them brand new while I was tuning old carbs 10 years ago) and add some protection to the oil lines that run right between them.

I took apart the oil lines as soon as I realized they wouldn't work they way they came. The Katana oil lines are aluminum, and were very compliant to my gentle persuading to get them going in the right direction. I used the top right on the left, and visa versa. Once I got them lined up, the metal sections were less than an inch apart, so I just cut down the Katana soft lines and spliced them in. I still need some crush washers and some hose clamps, but I'm very pleased with the results.

-Kevin

It's hard to see the line, but it's there. I need to get some pictures outside, but it's pouring out.

The adapters in place:

 

[CivilRock]

Almost there!!!

Almost there!!!

I should be ready to fire this thing up tonight!

I wasn't really happy with the oil cooler being so close to the headers, so I moved it up and out a little. I think it's in a good spot now.

The cooler lines are between the headers, but I don't really see another way to do it cleanly. The Katana had the lines going outside everything inside the lower fairing, but it looks weird that way on a naked bike.

Finally found some RS38 carbs for a decent price (locally too!) and they came with K&N filters. Holly hell they were tough to get in the intake boots! I finally used a hairdryer and WD-40 and a bunch of sweat, (there was blood) and some tears to get them in place. Sheesh!

All I need now is some fuel lines (and some luck) and she'll be good to go. I would have finished last night, but it was 2am when I finally got the carbs in place and my wife would have lost her shiz if I fired that bike up.

I spent a lot of time looking at all my wiring last night. Back when I got this bike I had some normal problems that GS1100's have with bad connectors, R/R, etc. so I'm kind of picky about good clean connections. Also, with adding different clocks, new ignition (Dyna 2000), coils, new handlebar controls. All that makes for a lot of decisions on how to make everything clean and tidy. Also, which connectors to use, what goes where, mapping out all the new connections, etc. It's kind of crazy.
Here's a scan of my map of just the Bandit 400 clocks to the GS1100 diagram. And there's some problems with it because I found out some of the GS1100E wires change color when the connect in the headlight.
-Kevin

 

[harley10]

Looking good , very good , those 38 will liven up that motor big time , Brian

 

[Rob S.]

Couldn't the oil cooler be flipped so that the lines were on the bottom? I'm trying to recall if that's how the Lockhart on my Z1 was.

Amazed by the work you did on the bolt/adaptors

1100EZ V&H, APE pods

 

[CivilRock]

Couldn't the oil cooler be flipped so that the lines were on the bottom? I'm trying to recall if that's how the Lockhart on my Z1 was.

Amazed by the work you did on the bolt/adaptors

1100EZ V&H, APE pods

This is my first oil cooler job, so I don't really know. I thought the reason they were connected on the top was so the oil doesn't drain out when you turn off the bike. The other part is that the oil cooler mounting points were already really close to the horn mounts on the GS, so it all just fell into place.

Thanks for the compliment on the adapters. It's not that I can't afford to just buy some custom made oil lines from the hydraulic shop. I'm just stubborn, and instead of spending $150 on cooler lines, I'd rather spend $8 on some bolts and see if I can make what I have work. Lots of my crazy ideas end up in failure, but some are good. I think this one was brilliant, and it worked awesome. A leaky oil line, or a total rupture could be catastrophic, so I worked very carefully on this one. I'm saving up for a nice TIG welder at some point. I wish I could make better welds with what I have, but it does the job.

I'm pretty excited to fire her up. I fully expect some sort of problem, and I'll be amazed if I can just take her out for a test ride straight off.

 

[posplayr]

Good looking bike, and you are making great progress.

However, you might want to check what happens as far as clearance when those forks fully compress. Based on my experience you will have to pull that cooler back toward the frame to clear your fender under full compression.

I would suggest Popping the fork caps to let the bike down all the way to check for clearance at full compression.

This what I has to do and I only have a little bitty 550 cooler. I have an 1150 cooler that I will probably mount as now that I'm in AZ it will be a damn site warmer than SB on the coast.

Mine is a GS1100ED with 88 GSXR 1100 forks/triple and 18" wheels, fender

 

[CivilRock]

Good looking bike, and you are making great progress.

However, you might want to check what happens as far as clearance when those forks fully compress. Based on my experience you will have to pull that cooler back toward the frame to clear your fender under full compression....

You're absolutely right. Just looking at the picture it sure looks like they'll collide. I'll be able to bend the little mounting brackets I made to get it to clear. Also need to do some more careful oil line adjustments.

Nice catch. I could see my big happy smile as I'm doing a wheelie with this new found power only to be completely crushed when I slam the front end down and demolish my new oil cooler. That would have sucked.

Thank you for looking out for a brother.

posplayr, did you put heat wrap around the oil cooler lines? I could totally do that. At some point I'm going to replace the exhaust system, and maybe then I'll take off the wrap.

What do you guys think of the heat wrap? There's a really cool MC show in Portland called "The One Motorcycle Show" and I noticed a lot of the cool kids were putting heat wrap on the exhaust. Not sure if it's completely necessary or needed at all, and I'm not sure I like it. But I do love it when mechanical necessity manifests itself into an artistic presence.

-Kevin

 

[dorkburger]

Great job so far Quick side question....Clearly you have an 1150 front end, but with different wheels. What are the calipers and rotors from? Im interested, as they appear to be a direct bolt on, with the exception of the brake lines.

 

[CivilRock]

Dorkburger,

Thanks!

90/91 GSXR1100 wheels
1992 GSXR1100 brakes
2002 SV650 Rotors?

I can't find my notes on the rotors. I went through about 3 sets of rotors before I found the right ones. I had some Bandit rotors that were bent that fit, then some others that didn't fit, then I figured out from the EBC website that the SV650 rotors were the same as the Bandit ones I liked, and found those on eBay. And there are some hidden washers between the calipers and the fork legs to make them fit perfectly. It's not a direct bolt together, but close.

If you were curious:
1992 GSXR1100 swingarm
1985 GS1150 front end
2002 GSXR1000 Master C.
1984 Nighthawk 750 mirrors
1984 GS1150 motor
2003 GSXR750 handlebar switches
1992 GSF400 Bandit gauges
1995 GSX600 Katana oil cooler

I've been putting together a file to keep track of what's what. When you need to order something like brake pads, it's sometimes difficult to remember what you need.

-Kevin

 

[posplayr]

I've been putting together a file to keep track of what's what. When you need to order something like brake pads, it's sometimes difficult to remember what you need.

1985 GS1150 front end
90/91 GSXR1100 wheels
1992 GSXR1100 brakes
2002 SV650 Rotors? (SV650 rotors were the same as the Bandit ones I liked)

-Kevin

This is an interesting upgrade as the 1150 has the widest triple clamp of all the GS and GSXR bikes but has 37mm stanchions. So it is wide enough for basically any wheel (3.5"x17" or 2.75"x18"). With the narrow GS1100E forks there is just not enough room for a wider wheel (IIRC than 1.85"x19") to also fit rotor and calipers in the mix.

Conceivably you could even put GS1100E stantions into 1150 triples and retain any work (e.g. emulator upgrades) you might have already completed. The GS1150 forks are very long due to the 16" front wheel they came with and the upper clamp of the clippons.

I looked at this a while back for Chef1366 and I don't remember any issues with gauge mounts and steering stops or ignition locks it is all probably close to the same. Since you have obviously done it can you fill us in on those details?

If you want to retain the handle bars instead of clip on's then you would have to bolt weld bar clamps to the top of the triple.

Anymore details on what you did for axle, spacers and bearing sizes?

 

[CivilRock]

About 5 years ago I accidentally lost my domain and email, which meant I also lost my password for this site. I was "outofcontrol" and here's all the details of the build. Unfortunately it's not very fun without all the pictures. http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=85177

Last summer I started re-creating the website and the build. Feel free to check it out, the link is in my signature. The link lands you on page 7, so if you're really wanting to waste some time, start on page 1. Here's a picture of the spacers I made. The axle is 15mm OD and the GSXR bearings are 20mm ID, so I made some captive spacers for both sides. There were some large washers used for fine tuning, but that's it.

I wanted to use the 1150 forks for the length and width so I could use modern 17" tires for the look and the performance. Plus I had stacks of road race take-offs in my garage as I was actively racing in our local series. I also loved the metal fin/fender/fork brace on the 1150 fender, and wanted to keep near period correct right-side-down forks. The 16" tire on the 1150 ends up being almost exactly the same diameter as a 120 x 17 modern tire as well.

Ummmm, are you trying to hijack my thread? I really don't mind.

I started the 1150 motor last night. It was difficult and there was lots of smoke. I need to trim down my oil line adapters because they bottomed out before the copper washers were tight and it was leaking oil on the exhaust. That made a lot of smoke. And I think I'm waaay lean because my heat wrap was smoking and started to turn brown. That was as it was running for only 90 seconds or so.

This is exactly how I blued the pipes 9 years ago. Except back then I was so excited to ride it, I rode it with the choke 3/4 on just to get it to my buddy's house to show off. Now I need to study my jetting and start over with these carbs. These RS38 carbs supposedly have the jetting from Mikuni in them, but I didn't verify that. Anyone know what the baseline should be for a set of RS38s on a stock 1150 with a V&H 4-1 street pipe?

-Kevin

 

[dorkburger]

Kevin, I spent some time last night going thru the history of your cycle and the mods. Ive been watching your posts since you first posted about your recent dragstrip foray, but now see you have a fairly long history here Great documentation and history. Funny how the bike came back to you..My first GS came to me as a much abused 83 1100e, so the 82-3 1100e bikes hold a special place for me. It was my second streetbike, and the one that got me hooked on both streetriding and old GSs.
Thanks for posting up your work...

 

[ptexotik]

love that profile of the E's. great work sir!

 

[CivilRock]

She's alive!

She's alive!

Thanks dorkburger and ptexotik.

I was a little worried about being lean, but after a call to my builder buddy Larry Cook, he reassured me that the carbs are set correctly. He also said the heat wrap should smoke quite a bit as it breaks in.

I love the mini lathe. I could have used a grinder to shorten my oil line adapters, but the lathe is just so much cleaner. So no more oil leaks.

Also remounted the oil cooler for the 3rd time. I removed the fork caps to determine the final position of the cooler (thanks posplayr) which left the bike in a precarious position on the center stand. I was well aware of this (for a while). I should also mention that I bought a new tub to catch the 4qts of brand new oil so I could reuse it. It was sitting under the bike. As I was tweaking and persuading the oil lines into place I accidentally pushed the bike off the center stand. I immediately caught the bike, but my new catch tub got crushed by the exhaust collector and I spilled 4+ quarts of new oil all over my garage floor. :hand:

There were some very foul mouthed moments accompanying the hour plus clean up of that eff-ing mess.

Anyway. Got more oil this morning and after several minutes of cranking, adjusting, checking, re-checking, she finally took an idle. Even accepted some throttle input.

It wasn't without a lot of smoke.

I even captured a little video of the scene just for your enjoyment.
http://youtu.be/0Ca1g-ZYTJY

-Kevin

 

[posplayr]

It wasn't without a lot of smoke.

I even captured a little video of the scene just for your enjoyment.
http://youtu.be/0Ca1g-ZYTJY

-Kevin

Sounds like you are very close on those carbs. Now what is not to like about a stock 1150 with RS38's, knowing 1229 is just standing in the wings.

The cooler looks much better and out of the way.

Breathing new life into this old metal is what it is about. It will never be a new sport bike and that is kinda the point. With that suspension it will handle most everything you can legally (and then some) throw at it on the roads.

I know you are not new to this as this build started back in 2005, but good work anyway.

Not sure if you have done a coil relay mod yet? With that kind of motor you really need to make sure the ignition is all there.

 

[CivilRock]

Sounds like you are very close on those carbs. Now what is not to like about a stock 1150 with RS38's, knowing 1229 is just standing in the wings.

I think what I need to do is cool my friggen jets.

So I just ordered a Series R/R and the SSPB from Jim, and I'm going to call it good for now. I still haven't received my 2003 GSXR handlebar controls, so I can't even go for a ride. I don't want to hack in what I have only to re-do it next week.

I know I talked about adding power next (1230cc, .340 cams, Porting) but I think I'm going to work on handling. I'd like to replace the stock GS shocks with some YSS units, or (gasp!) Ohlins, and see what I can do for the front end. I've got all these parts hacked together with no attention to proper geometry. I don't think the 190 rear helps at all. She handles well enough, but at big lean angles there's not much confidence.

I've always thought of this bike as a tribute to the muscle era of motorcycles. And in the vein, the handling was never great, but straight line (drag racing) elements were awesome. But why can't I have it all?

What I need to do is sit down and analyze my bike and figure out the real geometry. Then figure out what to do before I go and order new shocks. (next year)

Will update with pics/report once I have done the first test ride.

-kevin

 

[posplayr]

I think what I need to do is cool my friggen jets.

So I just ordered a Series R/R and the SSPB from Jim, and I'm going to call it good for now. I still haven't received my 2003 GSXR handlebar controls, so I can't even go for a ride. I don't want to hack in what I have only to re-do it next week.

I know I talked about adding power next (1230cc, .340 cams, Porting) but I think I'm going to work on handling. I'd like to replace the stock GS shocks with some YSS units, or (gasp!) Ohlins, and see what I can do for the front end. I've got all these parts hacked together with no attention to proper geometry. I don't think the 190 rear helps at all. She handles well enough, but at big lean angles there's not much confidence.

I've always thought of this bike as a tribute to the muscle era of motorcycles. And in the vein, the handling was never great, but straight line (drag racing) elements were awesome. But why can't I have it all?

What I need to do is sit down and analyze my bike and figure out the real geometry. Then figure out what to do before I go and order new shocks. (next year)

Will update with pics/report once I have done the first test ride.

-kevin

Kevin,

Thanks for the order, I'll ship tommorow.

I fully agree you need to get the bike sorted as is and be comfortable with it. More than likely the engine it is all you really need. I'm at 1166 and everything else except the RS carbs and there is plenty of pull regardless of what you want.

On suspension, look like the main thing to do is get some stiffer forks/brace. Those are still some spindly 37mm stanchions. If you want to stay RSU the 1st gen GSXR stuff is 41mm, but with your wheels and brakes you should go 2nd gen or more modern like Bandit emulator forks at 43mm (Look for John Kat's various posts on this topic)these have plenty of RSU length or do some USD like Nic, powder coated black.

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showpost.php?p=2004839&postcount=53

With rearsets:

If you stick with the bandit RSU you will not have any ground clearance issues as you might have with that V&H and USD forks. The ESD and Katana guys will uses a Honda top triple to buy back 1/2" but they are all doing clip ons.

Jim

 

[CivilRock]

I'm very much in love with the 1150 fender, and that pretty much has to go with the 1150 forks. I think I can make the fork legs work for what I need on the street. I'd like to see how I can improve the internals. If that means taking them to a suspension specialist or doing my own modifications.

On the rear, to be honest, I want some fancy reservoir shocks. I swear half the reason is just for the looks. Pitiful but true. I would throw some $100 replicas on there, but I can't bring myself to do it. YSS seems to be the best bang for the buck, but I've just started my obsessing about it. I do have a pretty extensive racing background, and I want something that's somewhat trick.

-Kevin

 

[posplayr]

I'm very much in love with the 1150 fender, and that pretty much has to go with the 1150 forks. I think I can make the fork legs work for what I need on the street. I'd like to see how I can improve the internals. If that means taking them to a suspension specialist or doing my own modifications.

On the rear, to be honest, I want some fancy reservoir shocks. I swear half the reason is just for the looks. Pitiful but true. I would throw some $100 replicas on there, but I can't bring myself to do it. YSS seems to be the best bang for the buck, but I've just started my obsessing about it. I do have a pretty extensive racing background, and I want something that's somewhat trick.

-Kevin

I think the fender mounts for the GS1150 are probably identical to the 1st gen forks which are 41mm (as I have). Updated springs, Race tech emulators and fork brace is what I have.

I have a ground clearance spreadsheet for GS1100EZ/ED which you can play games with options. It calculates belly ground clearance and trail. I'll shoot it to you.
Jim

 

[CivilRock]

Test ride.

Test ride.

I couldn't resist taking the bike out for a test ride and I temporarily wired in my handlebar controls to make everything work (kind of). I had a lot to be apprehensive about on this little test ride:
1. First off, if you read, I spilled 4 qts of new oil all over my garage floor. Some of that got on the wheels, and I did as best I could to get it off quickly.
2. It wasn't raining at the time of my ride, but the ground was fully wet.
3. My controls are sort of duct taped in place and while I was riding I realized that the throttle side was spinning on the bar.
4. It was 10pm, dark, and my bike was still smoking at stoplights.
5. I wasn't fully sure how the power delivery would come out.

So all that said, I didn't crash. But I was riding with a full plate. There are lots of little things wrong. For some reason my signals sometimes blink, sometimes they don't. My neutral light doesn't come on. The oil temp light is glowing, but the temps are in control. 150F at the oil cooler, 230-50F at the head, 230-250F at the block. It was about 42F out, so I don't think it was overheating. Maybe the Bandit 400 light is set to come on early?

The throttle seems sticky off idle, and there's also a serious bog in the needle jetting. All that was fine, and I can make it all work. Little bugs that I'll address as I finish all the wiring.

The bad news: Sometimes it went into 5th, sometimes it wasn't there. It goes into 5th in the garage with the rear off the ground, but on the road it's not there. I did get in in 5th a couple times, but I don't know how it happened. There's definitely something wrong. Yea, serious sad face.

-Kevin